Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: Welcome to the YA Podcast. Lean in as we dive into the practicals of life with Jesus as spirit filled young adults.
[00:00:26] Speaker B: Welcome everyone to the YA Podcast.
[00:00:30] Speaker A: Hello.
[00:00:31] Speaker B: We're back. Bible chats. It's Thomas and Sam. How are you, Sam?
[00:00:36] Speaker A: I'm doing quite well. How are you?
[00:00:37] Speaker B: Quite well. That's good. I like that. Quite well.
[00:00:40] Speaker A: Yeah. Just had a nap before.
[00:00:43] Speaker B: I'm doing rather well. I would, I would love a nap. That'd be great. It'd be really good. But we're going to chat about the Bible today. Going to touch on a few things that we spoke about last week at a bit of a length. We're going to go at a bit more depth with some scriptures. So if you weren't listening to episode, why don't you just pause, Go back to that. But here's a quick summary if you don't want to pause and go back to that. We were talking about identity in Christ and something that came up as Kelsey and I were chatting about that because that's the whole season. We're going to unpack a few different things around. Identity in Christ is this point that when we're saved, we receive a new identity. This idea of the old is gone, the new has come, the old man, the new man, the old self. All this sort of language that Paul uses and the New Testament writers use. But sometimes we don't feel like that, you know, we, the Bible says with the righteousness of Christ, sometimes I don't act very righteously.
So we forgive you. Yeah, thanks. I repented.
But there's obviously like, it feels like there's this tension there where it's like the Bible says I am that, but I'm not always like that.
And something we chatted about was that, you know, we, in the Christian school of thought, it is that we are something. And so because we are, that we learn to live like that. Whereas probably a more secular framework is you are not that yet, but act like it and you will become that.
So it's the opposite. It's the secular framework is the action first.
[00:02:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:02:27] Speaker B: Whereas the Christian worldview because of Christ is your identity has changed. And so because of your identity changed now the behavior will come. Now the sanctification process comes. Yeah, so that's a bit of a recap.
[00:02:41] Speaker A: Yeah. I'm not sure if it's too early to make comments on that.
[00:02:44] Speaker B: Yeah, go for it.
[00:02:45] Speaker A: Maybe we'll get to it.
[00:02:46] Speaker B: Let's jump straight in.
[00:02:47] Speaker A: Yeah. But like, I think that even just the difference between that mindset and the Mindset of the world is so much better.
[00:02:55] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:02:55] Speaker A: Right.
[00:02:56] Speaker B: Because it's more hopeful. Right.
[00:02:58] Speaker A: Yeah, it's more hopeful. Also, you're not working from a place of needing to strive for something.
[00:03:04] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:03:04] Speaker A: In your own strength.
[00:03:05] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:03:06] Speaker A: You're coming from a place where you're like, God has completed everything.
[00:03:10] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:03:11] Speaker A: And now. But now he's like, okay, now you step up and do your part as well.
[00:03:16] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:03:16] Speaker A: But not to. Not to make yourself saved, but just because he's like, now I've given you the platform for it, so now you can go and, like, walk in it.
[00:03:25] Speaker B: Live out what you already have. It's like you already have the car.
[00:03:29] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:03:30] Speaker B: Just now learn to drive it.
[00:03:31] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
[00:03:33] Speaker B: Yeah. I think that's a good thing to add, because we're going to dive into that term sanctification, and I think sometimes the discussion around sanctification can become workspace salvation. Yeah.
And works is not a problem. And this is why, you know, James says to, you know, that faith without works is dead. That is an important truth, because a faith that would actually save us is one that would cause us to work out our faith.
[00:04:02] Speaker A: Absolutely. Yeah.
[00:04:03] Speaker B: So there is that tension there. But we're not saved by works. But because we're saved, it will produce something in us. And that is what we're talking about today is that process of sanctification. It's not that we need that in order to go to heaven.
[00:04:20] Speaker A: Yes. Yep.
[00:04:22] Speaker B: But we probably should do it to become more Christ, like, and have more heaven on earth.
[00:04:26] Speaker A: Absolutely. Yeah. So, and with our mindset being changed through, like, you know, the justification that happened at salvation, it's in the natural overflow that we want to engage with the process of sanctification.
[00:04:39] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:04:40] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:04:40] Speaker B: That's good.
[00:04:41] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:04:42] Speaker B: Yeah. Maybe let's just get some terms so that we're not having this conversation. And everyone's like, oh, what do you mean by this word? That word, everything else. So.
Because there's a lot of discussion around what these words mean.
[00:04:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:04:54] Speaker B: And we're not going to debate that. We're just going to, I guess, provide an understanding of what we mean by these terms.
[00:04:59] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:05:00] Speaker B: So justification, sanctification, glorification, these are kind of three words that people use collectively to describe salvation.
[00:05:11] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:12] Speaker B: So salvation being a holistic term for those three.
Justification is that the time of salvation, another word might be used, is like regeneration, the regeneration of your spirit to become alive.
We use the word justification because it's like, it's a law term. You're justified. You. Another word would be you're acquitted.
[00:05:37] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:37] Speaker B: The. The crimes you've committed have been removed. It's like a final thing. If you commit a crime and I acquit you of the crime irregardless of what you're doing now, what your behaviors are, who you are, whether or not like it happened, etc. I acquit you of the crime as if the crime never happened.
[00:05:56] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:05:56] Speaker B: So that's the justification. The moment that you respond to the grace of God, then there's sanctification, which is the process of actually outliving your justification. That's what we're going to talk about in more detail today.
[00:06:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:11] Speaker B: And then glorification. When we finally go to be with Jesus, the full consummation of the gospel. It's the, like, it's what we, like, just want to be.
[00:06:24] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:06:25] Speaker B: It's when we are glorified or raised up with Christ in that final. In our final day.
[00:06:31] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think as well with that, using the legal terminology of, like, justification as well, it's like you can imagine if the criminal is. Is acquitted. Right. And said, oh, you are not guilty. You can now go free, they're still going to act like a criminal.
[00:06:45] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:06:46] Speaker A: Unless their behaviors change.
[00:06:48] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Exactly. Right.
[00:06:50] Speaker A: I feel like that's where the sanctification kind of makes sense.
[00:06:52] Speaker B: Yeah. Jesus has paid for all of our crimes, but now we're learning how to live out the new life we have.
Cool. So, like, where is this coming from? I guess so that first thing, first reality. Let's pull up Ephesians 2.
So that first reality of everything's been paid, it's done. You are holy.
Matt's. Matt.
Matt's coming in another episode. Sam in front of me is flipping pages.
Cool. So Ephesians 2 talks about a lot of things. Essentially, he. I love Ephesians. It's this beautiful, almost like sermon. First half is here's the gospel, and second half is because of the gospel. Live like this. It's so simple. So in Ephesians 2, it's the gospel. And in verse 11, it says, Therefore. Actually, that's not what I want to go further up.
Verse 1. And you were dead in trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience. That's describing our before nature.
And then it talks about, where are we? Verse 5. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, we were made alive together with Christ by grace, you have been saved. See, there's that. That's that finality to it. You have already been saved and raised up with him and seated us with him in heavenly places in Christ Jesus. So then coming ages, he might show his immeasurable riches of his grace and kindness towards us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved again, final, through faith. It's not your doing. It's the gift of God, not a result of works so that no one may boast. You see, there's that finality, like you have been saved, not a result of anything you've done. Yeah, but everything that Jesus has done.
But then in First Corinthians.
[00:08:52] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:08:53] Speaker B: Verse 1. What is it, sorry? 1 Corinthians, chapter 1, verse 18. What does it say?
[00:08:58] Speaker A: It says, for the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved, it is the power of God being saved. Yeah, it's quite interesting. Yeah. I was looking into this earlier as well, so just so that you guys don't think that we're, like, preaching heresy.
[00:09:21] Speaker B: But it sounds like Paul's contradicting himself.
[00:09:23] Speaker A: It does. Paul wrote Corinthians being saved, like it's actively ongoing. Yeah. And just because we, like, obviously we don't want to read meaning to things when there isn't meaning there. But in this context, there's actually a lot of meaning in the difference in the way it's translated. So, like, the verb for like, the word for being saved in this context is defined as like a present passive participle. And we'll just break that down. So basically, present, AKA it's happening right now. Passive, AKA it's not we're saving anything, but something. We're being saved.
[00:09:58] Speaker B: So it's happening to us.
[00:09:59] Speaker A: It's happening to us. And the participle aspect with the present part actually makes it like, in English terms, like when you're saying you're like, you're walking or you're like you're singing, you're doing something actively. So therefore, it's not you are saved right now, it's you are being saved.
[00:10:17] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:10:17] Speaker A: There's an active process of salvation that's happening right now.
[00:10:20] Speaker B: Similar form that we use of this isn't in the passive form, but you are walking. That would be the present participle.
[00:10:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:27] Speaker B: But then we've got the present or in the form of a book. Right? The book is being written.
[00:10:33] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:10:34] Speaker B: That is, you know, the present participle, passive version. That Someone is writing that book right now.
[00:10:41] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:41] Speaker B: It's not finished, but it is being written. That's the same grammatical structure that we're reading in verse 18 of chapter one. We're being saved.
[00:10:52] Speaker A: Yeah. Which seemingly contradicts just that you're saved in the other scripture, but, yeah, that's what we had discussed, which I think, like.
[00:11:00] Speaker B: And this is why I love that we live in 2024, because we have such a history of forefathers in scholarship and in Bible study. Because I'm sure this was something that they would have wrestled with when they got these scriptures. Like, hold up, you said I was saved. Now you've written being saved. What are you talking about? Yeah, and this is the fact of, like, we are saved, or our position is, yes, we are just. In Ephesians 2, it says we're seated in heavenly places with Christ. But last I checked, Sam, you're seated in front of me as well.
[00:11:36] Speaker A: How can you be in two places?
[00:11:37] Speaker B: Yeah. Right. And so, like, that mere thing is like, hold up, what's going on?
[00:11:42] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:11:43] Speaker B: And we all agree that one. The word of God is inspired.
[00:11:48] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:48] Speaker B: So it's. There's not a contradiction, even though it seems like it. Paul is trying to explain the truth.
And so that truth is, yes, you have been saved. It's done. Final gift of God. No man can boast because it's not by our works. But Paul is then communicating to the Corinthian church that the Holy Spirit is at work in you to actually make real in this life in your flesh what is already real for your spirit in heaven.
[00:12:19] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:12:21] Speaker B: Which is great because you read Corinthians and it's like, yeah, they're pretty immature.
Like, it's just true. Like, I mean, Paul says in. In chapter three, it's like, you should be eating meat by now, but you're eating milk.
[00:12:33] Speaker A: Like.
[00:12:33] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Drinking milk. But, like, he's brutal with him. He's like, essentially saying, you should be adults by now, but you're still children.
[00:12:40] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:12:41] Speaker B: And so clearly he's. He's using this maturing aspect.
[00:12:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:12:45] Speaker B: That we've. We are saved, but now the Holy Spirit is at work in us.
[00:12:50] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:12:51] Speaker B: To be matured into Christ likeness.
[00:12:53] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's kind of. It's. Yeah, it's interesting that like. Like a book that goes into all of, like, the things that they need to grow in and mature and stuff like that. It starts off with this particular kind of word being used. The fact that there's an ongoing salvation process that they need to engage with themselves as well.
[00:13:10] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I mean, bringing back to that grammar structure, it's the passive.
[00:13:15] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:13:16] Speaker B: So we're the object.
[00:13:18] Speaker A: Yeah, yep, yep.
[00:13:19] Speaker B: So we're not the ones doing the saving.
So again, it's still not us. We still can't boast in this.
[00:13:27] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:13:27] Speaker B: It's still not a workspace salvation.
[00:13:29] Speaker A: No. Yeah.
[00:13:30] Speaker B: Because we're. We're the object.
[00:13:32] Speaker A: Yep, yep.
[00:13:33] Speaker B: So we're not the one doing the saving.
[00:13:34] Speaker A: Yeah. So, yeah, so it's more of like a submission to, like the Holy Spirit's work in us.
[00:13:42] Speaker B: I like that. That's it. It's. It's Holy Spirit is the one that does the sanctification process, but we need to submit to that.
[00:13:51] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:52] Speaker B: It's like, you know, if this is a terrible analogy, I'm gonna do it anyway. It's like if a sculptor had a piece of clay that could just like jump off the table.
[00:14:02] Speaker A: Yeah, right. That's actually a good example. Yeah.
[00:14:06] Speaker B: Clay just doesn't jump off the table. But that's kind of the analogy. Right. Where the object being fashioned by the Holy Spirit. But the problem is that we can jump off the table if we want to.
[00:14:15] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
[00:14:17] Speaker B: And this is all through the bible, like Romans 12. 1. Don't be conformed to this world. Present your body. Present your body.
[00:14:24] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:14:24] Speaker B: We have the responsibility to present our bodies, not our spirit.
See, like our spirit is already renewed.
[00:14:32] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:14:33] Speaker B: But we're meant to present our body as a living sacrifice.
[00:14:38] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:14:38] Speaker B: Holy and acceptable to be transformed.
[00:14:40] Speaker A: Yeah, agreed.
[00:14:42] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So I guess, I mean, that's like. We've just explained it. Yeah. But obviously there's that. It's like, cool. Okay, Sam. Tom. I agree. I'm saved, and I'm still being saved. And I'm submitting myself to the work of salvation by the Holy Spirit. How do I do that? What does that look like? Yeah, I mean, Paul kind of gives us this in Romans, chapter six onwards.
You didn't think we're just going to leave you there? Everyone, do you have anything to add before we jump into this?
[00:15:13] Speaker A: No, nothing that goes to mind.
[00:15:15] Speaker B: Yeah, so like Romans 6. I'll just point out a few things and we'll go from there. But he's again, just presented essentially that gospel, that we've got peace with God because we have faith in Jesus and what he's done, that we are dead to our flesh and what has happened in the garden and we have life in Christ.
That whole idea through, you know, one. One man's sin, we became sinners. Through one man's obedience, we become righteous. That. That's the language he's just been using.
And then in chapter six, he again reaffirms in verse, where am I? Verse two, how can we who died to sin still live in it? He's asking that question. It's like, you know, because we all ask that question, hold up, I thought I was dead to sin. I thought I was saved. Yeah, but I'm still sinning.
And he's addressing that, that tension that we live in, you know, where he goes on to say, we were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that just as Jesus Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. He's in this conversation, having that conversation. The emphasis is on we have been saved. That's the emphasis.
But then later in chapter six, he presents that tension again of.
And he has this conversation around, are we slaves to sin or slaves to righteousness?
And the phrase that he uses, let me pick it out. Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness. Again, that phrase, present yourself, that's verse 16, if you're reading along.
It's like, it's still that we have an active role of presenting ourselves and using that language of slaves being submissive to something.
And in verse 19, I'll pick up halfway through, for just as you were once, just as you present, once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, leading to sanctification.
There's our word.
[00:17:36] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:38] Speaker B: So Paul is just summarizing our whole conversation so far, pretty much. He's like, hey. Like, yeah, you're saved, but now present yourself as a slave to righteousness.
[00:17:51] Speaker A: Interesting.
[00:17:51] Speaker B: Let's bring it into the language we're using.
[00:17:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:53] Speaker B: Submit yourself to the work of your master, who is now Jesus Christ is our Lord, Holy Spirit being the one that acts upon us, which leads to sanctification.
Yeah, it's quite clear there, right?
[00:18:08] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:08] Speaker B: It's our submission that leads to the sanctification process.
For when you were slaves to sin, you were free in regard to righteousness, but what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death, but now you have been set free from Sin have become slaves of God or submitted yourself to God. The fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end is eternal life.
[00:18:31] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:18:33] Speaker B: Amazing. Yeah. It's like there's. That there is produce.
[00:18:38] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:39] Speaker B: Again, the fruit of the Holy Spirit.
He is the one that crafts something in us, and that is sanctification. How do we know we're being sanctified more of the fruit of the Holy Spirit's in our life than it was yesterday.
You got that?
[00:18:55] Speaker A: I don't know if it. I don't know if it goes off on a different tangent a bit, but I feel like it's still kind of there. But, like, because obviously this. This addresses typical issue that a lot of us have when we're like, okay, I've been saved. Why am I still struggling with, you know, certain things and certain sins and all that kind of stuff?
And I think for me as well, like, that's why sometimes, like a sign of a healthy walk with the Lord is not that right now you are seemingly pretty good in most areas of your life, but rather that if we look at it from here to this point in time now that there has been, like, transformation, there's been a solution to that process as well.
Because I think even, like, especially, like, obviously there's.
There's gradients at different points in your life as well. That and like, you know, different times where it's very rapid.
[00:19:50] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:19:51] Speaker A: Like, oftentimes initially at salvation, it's very.
[00:19:53] Speaker B: Rapid because you're like, yeah, things fall off very quickly. Yeah.
[00:19:55] Speaker A: And you're like, you're like, taking in so much stuff as well. And like, you're your first time being exposed to so much stuff. And so you're like, everything's being transformed very quickly, but then sometimes later in life, we can become a bit complacent as well.
[00:20:11] Speaker B: Yeah. And even, I mean, some. It's like, it. I get. I'll use the exact analogy. It's like, if you now know that smoking is deadly for you, you'll stop doing that. But it's a lot easier to potentially stop smoking than to stop being angry.
[00:20:30] Speaker A: Yeah. Yep. Absolutely.
[00:20:32] Speaker B: Like, even that in and of itself, it's like, okay, well, we almost deal with the behaviors, but now Holy Spirit starts fashioning the inner world, the. The temperament, the. The way we approach people, the words that we use.
He starts working on the heart.
[00:20:50] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Which have become, like, ingrained habits and things like that. That we might not even.
[00:20:55] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:20:55] Speaker A: Realize that we're always going towards doing and stuff.
[00:20:58] Speaker B: And like, well, like, you were Saying it's like, you know, the fruit of a believer's life is the submission, the obedience to that less of the perfection in their life, but actually the obedience to the Holy Spirit in their life.
[00:21:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:10] Speaker B: I love the way, I remember Shane Willard said this in a sermon, that it's. It's the direction they're facing and the direction they're walking that matters.
[00:21:20] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:20] Speaker B: So as long as they're walking in the right direction, it's like, okay, we can work with that.
[00:21:25] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:21:26] Speaker B: And that means that their heart is postured. They're a slave to righteousness because they're walking and they're following righteousness. Not that they are righteous, although we are, because that is imputed to us by Christ, but we're still following that. And if we're following that path, then we're headed the right way.
[00:21:46] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:21:49] Speaker B: Yeah. It's good. It's challenging, right?
[00:21:51] Speaker A: Yeah, it is.
[00:21:52] Speaker B: Because this is the part of, like, we're like, oh, I'm saved. I can do whatever I want as long as I repent, it's fine. And Paul's addressing this. Yeah, that's what he's addressing. It's like the license to sin because you're saved. It's like, hold up.
[00:22:05] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's like that Scripture is like, shall I sin all the more that grace shall abound all the more.
[00:22:10] Speaker B: That's literally chapter six, verse one, in moments, what shall I say then? Are we to continue to sin that grace may abound? He's like, by no means.
[00:22:19] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Because it can be very easy to be like, okay, so I'm saved. So I'm like, pretty sweet with the Lord. Yeah.
[00:22:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:28] Speaker A: And I'm. There's a lot of scriptures about being free, set free, all that kind of stuff, so I can be free and do as I please. But I was like, no, not quite.
[00:22:37] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, it's the way. Like another way to think of it is now that you're married, you kind of have to change the way you behave.
[00:22:46] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah.
[00:22:47] Speaker B: To suit your new identity as a married person. Yeah, that's the same thing. It's like you can keep living as if you weren't married, but you'll have a bit of pain in your relationship.
[00:22:59] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:23:00] Speaker B: It's like God's like, yeah, you can keep living as if you are not saved if you want, but it's not beneficial.
[00:23:07] Speaker A: No.
[00:23:08] Speaker B: And to our relationship.
[00:23:10] Speaker A: Absolutely. And that's where. That's the real selling point, I suppose, that, like, that through this submission and this Engaging with the work of sanctification and stuff like that. That we become more Christ. Like, we look more like Jesus. We become a better example of him to the world.
People are drawn to Jesus.
[00:23:29] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:23:31] Speaker A: Which is what we're all about. Right.
[00:23:33] Speaker B: As well.
[00:23:34] Speaker A: So.
Yeah. No, it's just.
[00:23:36] Speaker B: And you see it, like, I've been deep into, like, a lot of Paul's writings at the moment, and I've noticed that he. He has a great care for the effectiveness of the gospel. And sometimes he addresses things in the church.
Not necessarily because the thing itself is that bad.
[00:23:56] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:23:57] Speaker B: But because it. It renders the gospel ineffective to the people that witness that.
[00:24:02] Speaker A: Yep, absolutely.
[00:24:03] Speaker B: Like, at the end of the day, like, it's, you know, if the church was, you know, if bickering and disunified, well, they're still saved. But that renders the gospel ineffective to the people that are witnessing that.
[00:24:15] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:24:16] Speaker B: Because why would they enter into that if they're witnessing people.
[00:24:20] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:24:20] Speaker B: That way?
[00:24:21] Speaker A: And. And I think even from the perspective of non Christians, like, I know that sometimes, as Christians, we can sometimes feel the need to have to display a certain level of perfection before non Christians. But to be honest, they actually sometimes don't even really expect. Or like, well, they might expect that from us, but they don't necessarily desire that from us.
[00:24:45] Speaker B: Yeah. I think even when they desire to see that you are congruent with your belief system.
[00:24:51] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:24:52] Speaker B: And if your belief system is, hey, I'm a sinner.
[00:24:54] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:24:55] Speaker B: That needs a Savior, and I'm submitted to him as my Lord and I'm learning how to live that out, they go, oh, yeah.
[00:25:03] Speaker A: And then also they're like, oh, wait, crap, I can do that.
[00:25:05] Speaker B: Me too.
Yeah. And that's like. I think that's why the doctrine of sanctification should be spoken about.
[00:25:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:15] Speaker B: And it's not just, oh, you save. See you later. It's like, hold up. No, no, you're. Yeah, you're saved and you're going to heaven. But now I want you to become more Christ. Like, so that more of heaven can get through you, so that more people can experience Christianity.
[00:25:28] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:25:29] Speaker B: Because we're meant to be images of God. I feel like at the moment, I just keep coming back to Genesis 1:26.
[00:25:34] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:34] Speaker B: Like, we're images of God. Right. And sanctification process. Here's a good analogy. The sanctification process is like, if. So if we're images of God, images to them being like, it's like the stamp of a coin. So, you know, that stamp would make Multiple coins. And each coin would look like the stamp.
[00:25:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:55] Speaker B: So we're images of God. Each God almost like stamping us with his image. Each one of us should look like Christ, but a way, you know, if that coin gets dirty and, you know, musty, the image is a bit gone. Sanctification is like the polishing of the image so that it reflects the image accurately.
[00:26:16] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:17] Speaker B: So for us being Genesis 1:26, we're made in the image of God, making sure that we're being sanctified for Kai. Sanctified. Yeah, sanctified so that we are more accurately and beautifully reflecting the image of God to the people around us.
[00:26:31] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. That's what it's all about.
[00:26:34] Speaker B: It's a great calling. Right.
[00:26:36] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:36] Speaker B: So I get like, you know, application. We're saying, face the right direction.
The aim isn't perfection, the aim is obedience.
[00:26:45] Speaker A: And I'd add to that as well. Like humility. It starts from a place of humility.
[00:26:50] Speaker B: As well, being like humble submission to Holy Spirit.
[00:26:53] Speaker A: Exactly. Like, at any stage of the journey, whether you're at the beginning or like, you're like, been in, like, on this journey of faith for many, many years, you still need to engage with the process of sanctification. Unless you're Jesus. And if you're not Jesus, you need to engage with.
[00:27:11] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, that's probably a good way to end there.
Let's humbly submit to Holy Spirit in our lives, who's the one that leads us and guides us into all truth, is the way Jesus put the role of the helper and comforter in John 14. So, yeah, we're going to finish there. I hope that that's been helpful. The reality that, yes, we are saved, the crime has been paid for, but now we're learning how to become more like the one who paid our debt.
Yeah. Be blessed and we'll chat somewhere soon. Be.
