Conversations: Identity and Personality

[00:00:02] Speaker A: Welcome to the YA podcast. Lean in as we dive into the practicals of life with Jesus as spirit filled young adults. [00:00:26] Speaker B: Welcome Back to the Y8 podcast. [00:00:30] Speaker A: Welcome back. [00:00:31] Speaker B: Oh, Matt's with us today. [00:00:32] Speaker A: Hello, it's me. I'm back. [00:00:34] Speaker B: It's good to be here with Thomas as well. How you doing, Matt? [00:00:37] Speaker A: I'm doing good. [00:00:38] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:00:38] Speaker A: Had a good week. [00:00:39] Speaker B: What are you reading on your Bible at the moment? [00:00:40] Speaker A: Reading? I just started acts, man. [00:00:42] Speaker B: Good time reading. [00:00:43] Speaker A: I know I should have lots of action for people who know me in Bible college where we're about to do an exam on ACTS in a couple weeks and probably should have started reading earlier. Started reading this a little bit earlier. But devotional purposes, man. Getting a. It's a good book. [00:00:57] Speaker B: How about you, Tom? I. Bouncing around a little bit. [00:01:00] Speaker A: Bouncing around. [00:01:01] Speaker B: I was reading Hebrews, reading up on Revelation at the moment. It's a good time. [00:01:07] Speaker A: It's good. [00:01:08] Speaker B: It's a good time. Revelation, the victory of Christ. [00:01:11] Speaker A: Good. [00:01:13] Speaker B: Yeah. So. But today we're in the middle of a series around the identity in Christ and touching on a few different things, primarily around what it looks like to be conformed into the identity of Christ. What does that even mean, that phrase? And right here, I guess want to have a discussion around something that we might not even consider to be a part of that conversation. But we're going to put it in that conversation. [00:01:41] Speaker A: Come on. [00:01:42] Speaker B: And that's actually personality. What place does personality have within the discussion of identity in Christ? Does my personality change when I get saved? [00:01:54] Speaker A: Do I get it change? [00:01:55] Speaker B: Should it change? [00:01:56] Speaker A: When does it. Yeah, that's. [00:01:57] Speaker B: Do I become boring? And just holy is boring, but do. [00:02:03] Speaker A: We all become the same people? Yeah, they're good questions. [00:02:06] Speaker B: So I think these are some of the questions that we were having when we were planning this season and it's a good one that I've never heard anyone talk about. So this will be fun. But there's going to be. I guess we'll touch on a few scriptures here and there, but this is going to be more of a conversation informed by scripture and our thoughts will be submitted to that. But I also highly recommend listening to some of the Bible chats coming up. Yes, Matt, you're going to be doing. I'll be back, Sam, soon. Be good around Pride, which I think is going to be very applicable to some of the conversation we're having today. [00:02:42] Speaker A: Yeah, there'll be a bit of crossover. Yeah, it's going to be good. [00:02:45] Speaker B: So come back and listen to the Bible chats around Pride. [00:02:47] Speaker A: Yes, Sam's voice. [00:02:49] Speaker B: But for now, let's just have a conversation around personality and what place that has in identity in Christ. [00:02:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:02:56] Speaker B: Off the cuff. Matt, I will ask you a question. [00:02:58] Speaker A: I'll give you an answer. [00:03:00] Speaker B: Hopefully that first question, should our personalities change? [00:03:05] Speaker A: Yeah, good question. [00:03:06] Speaker B: When we come to Christ. [00:03:08] Speaker A: Yeah. We were chatting on. We were really just chatting about this, like right before we even hit record, like for this podcast and stuff. This idea around really sort of uniformity. Do we become this all the same? Like, you must cookie cutter Christian. This is what it will look like. [00:03:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:03:25] Speaker A: Or this aspect of God creating us with, you know, unique facets of who he is, different expressions and it's like there's actually beauty in that. Like. Yeah, I was thinking the Bible verse that's like, you know, if star differs from star in glory, then surely the children of God do as well. [00:03:44] Speaker B: Yeah, it's good. Like, very good. [00:03:46] Speaker A: I think they're def. I think. Yeah, there's definitely. We shouldn't really become all the same person. Same. Same in like, you know, in. I think it's Ephesians where he says there's one body, one baptism, one. Pastor Joel just preached on this a couple Sundays ago. [00:04:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:04:01] Speaker A: In Ephesians 4, we love like the fivefold part of that, but it's really about unity of one head. So there's that focus, but it's really. There's actually expressions of that. If there's a head, there's also a. [00:04:12] Speaker B: Body and we're not all the same body parts. Yeah. I think that conversation around unity is very important because the world projects like a perspective on unity that requires uniformity. Like. Yeah, I think that's somewhat, even a discussion around minorities and, oh, this person's oppressed and that. It's like, okay, there's some history there, I get that. But at the end of the day as well, we're not called to be the same. [00:04:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:41] Speaker B: We're not. We're not meant to be. Have the same ideas even. Yeah. And there is meant to be a uniqueness to each and every one of us, like you said. So if we're called to unity as a church and as Christians, but we're also unique. That's an interesting conversation. Right, like, how does that work? Because I don't think the world shows us how that works. And in fact it shows us the complete opposite. It says that you can't have independent, you kind of uniqueness in. [00:05:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:12] Speaker B: Without uniformity. Yeah, with uniform. With unity. Sorry. So. And you kind of unity without uniformity. [00:05:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:20] Speaker B: We've got to agree on everything to be unified, which I just don't believe in. You're not a married man. [00:05:26] Speaker A: I'm not, but I am. [00:05:28] Speaker B: Yes, you are. And Kelsey and I are unified. And we strive to be unified in all things. Not to sugarcoat this or even. Sorry if I'm breaking everyone's paradigms, but you don't agree on everything in marriage. Shock. Yeah. You just don't agree on everything in marriage. Right, but that doesn't. [00:05:52] Speaker A: I thought marriage was supposed to be. [00:05:53] Speaker B: Perfect the whole time. It's the best. But you don't agree on everything. Yeah, and. But the reality is that doesn't disunify. It could if we allowed it, but. [00:06:06] Speaker A: Yeah, if you allow it. [00:06:07] Speaker B: Exactly. So disagreement never disunifies or shouldn't disunify. And so then why are we having this conversation? Well, because we want to remove that, I guess, idea that unity equals uniformity. It's not the case. We can have unity amongst many different cultures, many different people, and we don't require everyone to be the same. We're called to be conformed to the same image. Yeah, but that doesn't mean that we're going to be all the same personality. [00:06:38] Speaker A: Well, because if we're all the same people, then technically we don't actually need one another. No, there's no need for. [00:06:44] Speaker B: I can be exactly who you are, so what's the point? [00:06:46] Speaker A: There's no need to rely on someone else. Yeah. [00:06:50] Speaker B: And we said this, I think, on the podcast before. It's like the fact that we're unique means I need you. [00:06:57] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:06:57] Speaker B: Because you have a unique. Not just revelation, but a unique expression of Christ that I need to experience. Otherwise I haven't experienced the fullness of Christ. [00:07:08] Speaker A: That's good. [00:07:08] Speaker B: Like, the fullness of Christ requires individuals and the uniqueness of individuals to be expressed. The fullness of Christ could not be fully expressed without the uniqueness of the body of Christ. [00:07:22] Speaker A: It's good. [00:07:22] Speaker B: So we need your personality, but, like, maybe there's parts of you, your life, that you're saying is your personality that the Lord's like, no, that's not your personality. That's just a bad habit. [00:07:36] Speaker A: Go there. That's a good. No, I feel like not many people. People don't talk about this. [00:07:41] Speaker B: No. So I got a background in psychology. [00:07:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:07:44] Speaker B: And the interesting thing around personality psychology is a lot of our, I guess, frameworks for personality comes from two sides of two sides. Stop me if I'm getting too in depth, Matt. But one is the we didn't prepare this. This is coming to our mind. So hopefully, I'm getting. One side of personality psychology is you describe people based on their behaviors, and then the other side is you are describing people based on, I guess, their qualities within specific circumstances. So who they are in that situation, that situation. That situation, that's their personality or how they behave in that situation. That situation. That situation. And it's a distinguishing between, I guess, behaviors versus more like a. This is a hard thing to put your finger on because behaviors are easy for us. And that's even why sometimes we say, oh, that's my personality, when actually it's just a behavior. [00:08:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:08:53] Speaker B: But we've done it for so long that it becomes part of ourselves, and. [00:08:56] Speaker A: We feel like it is. [00:08:57] Speaker B: And we've become. And we learn to identify with that. So, yeah, it's an interesting thing, even. I think that's some of the challenge. Challenging conversation around, you know, lgbtq, those sorts of things, is something that was never meant to be. An identity marker has become an identity marker. [00:09:21] Speaker A: Yeah. Right. [00:09:21] Speaker B: And more even, to some extent, personality marker. [00:09:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:09:25] Speaker B: When it was never the case. So I think to start with, through this conversation, we need to even, like, all of us need a renewed perspective on what. What is God's personality for us individually. [00:09:37] Speaker A: Yeah. And how we created in that. [00:09:40] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. How are we. In the same way, we ask the question all the time, like, what am I called to do? And like, what's my calling? [00:09:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:09:51] Speaker B: Maybe we should start asking the question of who am I called to be? [00:09:54] Speaker A: That's a good question. [00:09:55] Speaker B: And I get the easy Christian answer to that, is you're called to be Jesus. It's like, yeah, I get that. Just be you. But. But what is the expression of Christ, who I'm called to be. [00:10:06] Speaker A: Yeah. And how do you distinguish between what God says about that and then what the world's like, what you've grown up here. [00:10:13] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because our identity is formed. And even to some extent, our personality is formed even by what people say about us, the experience that we've had. I've met people that have said they're timid, and they're just not. And they're just not. And it's like, okay, they've clearly got a misunderstanding of their personality. I mean, we see this in youth ministry. Matt's one of our youth leaders. [00:10:37] Speaker A: It's hilarious. [00:10:39] Speaker B: And, yeah, I'm gonna go there. I think sometimes even parents will. When we're, you know, a new kid in youth, the parent will be like, oh, they're so shy. Like, please look after them. [00:10:50] Speaker A: And then like neck minute, two weeks in, they're just the rowdiest kid ever. [00:10:56] Speaker B: But the parents still saying they're shy. [00:10:57] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:58] Speaker B: And it's like, hold up, your kid ain't shy. Like they're, they're bold. [00:11:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:11:03] Speaker B: They're like, you know, and so I think that's part of it is we, we need to again, distinguish between what, what's God saying about us in our personality and what is what other people said, what the world said, what we've believed about ourselves. [00:11:17] Speaker A: Great. [00:11:18] Speaker B: So pulling some of that aside. Pulling some of that apart. Sorry. And really interrogating what we're attaching to our personality. Because your personality can become a crutch. [00:11:32] Speaker A: It can. Yeah. [00:11:35] Speaker B: So I hope that's a good, like, preface for maybe where. Let's have a chat, Matt, around where some of these things can come up. [00:11:45] Speaker A: Yeah. I came on, we're chatting just before we jumped on here. Came up with like sort of a couple of different markers of I guess not characteristics, just things that people will either hide behind or they'll embrace depending on type of personality. Introvert, extrovert. Some people feel like they're better at it. Some people hate it. Like, for like quick, easy example that everyone has is like, okay, well, I'm an introvert. So I find, you know, embracing silence as a spiritual discipline. Really difficult. Oh, no, really Sorry. Really easy. Really easy. Sorry, not difficult. [00:12:22] Speaker B: Silence and solitude for an introvert. Super easy. [00:12:24] Speaker A: Easy. But then if someone's an extrovert, they're like, oh, look, I find I don't really. [00:12:28] Speaker B: I don't relate to God that way. [00:12:30] Speaker A: Yeah. And so then I'm just really going to push that away. I don't need. And we sort of negate the need for that expression of encountering God. [00:12:39] Speaker B: Yeah. And which is kind of sad because I think we're using our personality to limit our experience of God. [00:12:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:47] Speaker B: Because God wants you to have silence and solitude. 1. Because it's healthy for you and you need it. Whether you think you need it or not. Everyone around you thinks you need it. [00:12:58] Speaker A: But. [00:13:01] Speaker B: It'S also, Jesus is going, hey, there's an experience of me that you can't have unless you lean into something that you might not even want yet. [00:13:11] Speaker A: 100%. But then on the other end of the spectrum, introverts like, yeah, like, everyone needs to get away in silence. But then you talk about community. All of the introverts, like, nah, like. [00:13:20] Speaker B: I'm good, I'm good. [00:13:22] Speaker A: All the extroverts are like, bro, this is I feel so loved part of God's family, all of it. And. And actually neither. Like, there's something found in each expression. So I challenge the introverts listening. Why. Why do you feel like you have no need for community? Is community something that we feel like we need? We've talked about this before. Yeah, but community is actually worship. [00:13:45] Speaker B: Yes. Fellowship is worship. We. [00:13:46] Speaker A: Fellowship is worship. We rub off each other, things bubble up and you get angry at someone. Or I feel like. And. But you begin to learn and be refined. But see Christ in other people. [00:13:57] Speaker B: That can be worship and silence and solitude. Going away by yourself forms Christ in you. So you can actually then do better in fellowship. Be a better reflection of Christ. Like, it all feeds into it. So. Yeah, they're different crutches. Just quickly. I, I say this all the time because I. I kind of get triggered by the words extrovert and introvert. It's not a thing. [00:14:22] Speaker A: Like, it's not in the Bible. Yeah, but also the Bible doesn't care. [00:14:26] Speaker B: Yeah, but it also. Is it like in life. It's not true. So again, coming back to personality psychology, we don't describe someone as introvert or extrovert. It's a question of a scale of extroversion. How extroverted are you or how introverted are you? And why I distinguish, that is. It's like, it's not you're this and you're that. It's actually no. I. I recharge around people and I feel like that fills me up. [00:15:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:15:02] Speaker B: But I still need the time alone. [00:15:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:15:04] Speaker B: Or it's. I get really filled up and recharged by myself. But then I still need time with people. [00:15:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:15:11] Speaker B: So it's not I am one or the other. It's actually no, there's a scale there that someone. Everyone's along that scale. So it just became an easy way to describe people. You're introverted, you're extroverted. When it was never meant to be that. [00:15:24] Speaker A: And we. And we tend. And then we can just rule our sort of selves. We sort of rule ourselves out. Yeah. Like we were saying, experiencing aspects of God because it's. It's uncomfortable. But I would challenge us. Just because the discipline feels uncomfortable, does that mean it's bad for you? [00:15:40] Speaker B: Yep. [00:15:41] Speaker A: It's. What. What if it's a good thing? What if there's something hiding beneath there that God actually wants to bring healing to? [00:15:46] Speaker B: Very good. [00:15:46] Speaker A: Like whatever it is. Like another one. You know, you hear people that say they Boast almost like, oh, I'm a really busy person. Every time you ask them, I'm super busy. Had a busy week doing this. And it sounds like they've got no time off. Yeah, that's one end of the spectrum. And they're like. And so, you know, speaking or even thinking about this practice of, you know, Sabbath, it's completely off the car. Rest, simply rest. And I've. I've been like that in seasons. And yeah, there's seasons where it's like, it's. It's difficult to apply these type of things. But I think a question sometimes we can be asking ourselves is, am I using my personality to hide behind something that I don't really want. Acknowledge is sort of in my heart? Like, is there like an unmet need that I don't really want to acknowledge. [00:16:34] Speaker B: That'S there and I'm trying to fulfill it? [00:16:36] Speaker A: Yeah, trying to fulfill it in other things. It's too painful to sort of, you know, open the lid and see what's there. So I'm just going to keep myself busy to sort of numb the pain. That can be a real reality. Yeah, it can be a real thing. [00:16:49] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's true. And like, I guess what we're trying to do is ask some of these questions, point out some of these examples for even you guys listening to potentially start asking yourself some things and going, well, is this actually my personality or is it just a way that I've learned to live? And I believe the creator of the world who created you wants to actually reveal to you how he created you. And we limit, like I said at the beginning, we limit that to like, functional outworking of our life 100%. But it's like, no, like, the Lord wants to reveal to you how you specifically experience joy, how you specifically experience community, how you specifically experience quiet and silence and solitude. Like those. I think there's that distinguish between we're all human like humans, which means there's the same things we all need. We all need food, we all need water. Like, we all need exercise, sorry, sleep, like, all these sorts of things. We need community. We need these things. But where our personality comes into play is the expression of those needs. [00:18:22] Speaker A: 100. [00:18:23] Speaker B: So our personality never negates a need that the Bible clearly talks to us about. [00:18:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:32] Speaker B: But our personality helps us understand how to express that. [00:18:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:38] Speaker B: So let's just take food as an example because it's super, super easy. And then we'll dive back into some more of these, like, biblical examples because let's Just zoom it out. Because everyone's getting too convicted. [00:18:46] Speaker A: Yeah, I know. [00:18:47] Speaker B: It's like, so food. Me and you have different preferences of food. We like different foods. [00:18:54] Speaker A: What's your favorite food? [00:18:56] Speaker B: I mean, I love my Italian food. Pizza. Pasta. But, like, good pizza. [00:19:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:00] Speaker B: Like good parts. [00:19:01] Speaker A: Okay. Back on track. [00:19:03] Speaker B: Anyway, so, like, we've got different preferences in food. Yeah. Okay. We both need to eat. Right. So just because you don't like pasta, if it's the only food that you have, you need to eat. So you're gonna eat. But you could also learn how to cook the food you like. [00:19:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:25] Speaker B: And I think it's that expression of a necessity that we actually need to talk about when it comes to personality. Personality should be the lens or the expression through which necessity or needs, whether that be physical, spiritual, emotional, all of those needs actually are outworked. [00:19:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:45] Speaker B: And so back with the conversation around community. [00:19:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:48] Speaker B: The way someone who is more introverted than another may satisfy the need of community is different. [00:19:58] Speaker A: Way different. [00:19:59] Speaker B: Way different. And that's okay. [00:20:02] Speaker A: It's actually a good thing. [00:20:03] Speaker B: It's fantastic. But they still need community. [00:20:06] Speaker A: Yeah. So don't rule yourself out. [00:20:09] Speaker B: Give yourself the permission to actually do it a different way. But don't remove yourself from doing it. [00:20:15] Speaker A: Exactly. And just give it sometimes, like, at the start of it, just give it a crack. Like, if you're an extrovert and silence terrifies you, start with, like a minute. [00:20:24] Speaker B: Like, tomorrow, go for a walk by yourself. So you're at least in nature. [00:20:28] Speaker A: So it's not like I'm locked in my room and there is absolutely nothing here right now. Like, start with the. Go around. Go around, a walk. If you feel like you can sit down at a minute every single day and just use that as a time of sort of letting God sort of begin to heal your heart and stuff in areas. Yeah. [00:20:43] Speaker B: What are some other things that maybe we use our personality to discount ourselves from? [00:20:51] Speaker A: I had written so contrasting with Sabbath. It's like, where I'm too busy. Like, I'm so, you know, I'm doing the stuff that God's called me to and I don't want to rest. Sometimes you can swing the other way. And we don't have a theology of. [00:21:03] Speaker B: Like, I'm called to work and work being worship. [00:21:05] Speaker A: Sounds illegal because we've talked so much about Martha in the church, which is a good thing. But the problem was that she was distracted with her much. [00:21:14] Speaker B: So, yeah, it was the motive. [00:21:15] Speaker A: It was the motive. But God's actually. And if that's all we ever think about work. We haven't got a holistic picture. God's actually called us to do things like you go into Genesis, he called Adam. To do what? To work the garden and to keep it. [00:21:28] Speaker B: To keep it. Yeah. [00:21:30] Speaker A: To do something. We're not just meant to just be just in silence, in solitude throughout our entire lives. [00:21:37] Speaker B: But that's even. That's. It's that theology of work being worship and allowing that to be worship. And it's like, yeah, you put oh, but I just. I can't do a nine or five. Like. Yeah, great. So your personality doesn't allow you to work an office job. Great. Doesn't mean your personality is saying don't work. [00:21:56] Speaker A: Exactly. Yeah. There's just a difference in expression. [00:21:58] Speaker B: What, work for you. [00:21:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:00] Speaker B: And yeah. One that I'll throw in there because I think it's a classic is evangelism. [00:22:07] Speaker A: Yeah. Good. And I feel like I'm timid. I'm not. I'm not. [00:22:12] Speaker B: Oh, no. [00:22:12] Speaker A: I'm just not made to be an evangelist. [00:22:13] Speaker B: I'm just not meant to be evangelist. [00:22:15] Speaker A: Yeah, It's. [00:22:16] Speaker B: It's fine. But then you got Timothy being told, do the work of an evangelist. [00:22:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:19] Speaker B: Even though he's not an evangelist. It's like, well, maybe. But like we. But even then it's. I think because we've seen a certain personality type doing evangelism. We've majored on the method. [00:22:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:36] Speaker B: And we go, oh, that's evangelism. Pointing towards the method of a personality doing evangelism instead of. [00:22:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:44] Speaker B: Whereas it's like, hold up. Evangelism is preaching the gospel 100%. So how you do that. And in actual fact, the church and non believers need your expression of preaching the gospel because there's someone that don't. Won't receive it through my expression, but it's someone that will receive it through your expression. [00:23:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:23:05] Speaker B: And so your personality is a gift. It's such a gift. But I think we've stuck. We can abuse and we can use it to discount ourselves from things that the God that God has called us to. [00:23:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:23:16] Speaker B: So, yeah. Like if. If you're not a massive. You know, if you're not a street preacher who wants to just shout at people on the street and like be bold and it's like all power to you, bro, if that's you. But maybe you're the simple. Like you go to the same coffee shop and you are just super intentional with your conversations with the people around you. [00:23:36] Speaker A: 100. [00:23:37] Speaker B: And it's quiet and it's just steady and you demonstrate faithfulness in. In just loving people in that way. [00:23:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:23:45] Speaker B: Like. [00:23:45] Speaker A: And it's seed sewing. Both of it. Seed sewing. [00:23:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:23:47] Speaker A: It just has different expressions. [00:23:49] Speaker B: Different expressions. [00:23:49] Speaker A: Different. It's like. [00:23:50] Speaker B: But both are doing the thing that the Lord has required them to do. [00:23:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:23:54] Speaker B: Just in a different way. [00:23:55] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's like there's the temptation. Right. And all of those, like, we call them spiritual disciplines. The goal of them is not to just become a pro at. Okay, I can do silence and solitude now or I can do community now. [00:24:08] Speaker B: Ticket the box. [00:24:09] Speaker A: Yeah. All of the point of any kind of discipline is to grow your awareness of God. [00:24:14] Speaker B: Yeah. Good. [00:24:15] Speaker A: If we think it's to just be like means to an end. It's like, okay, like, I'm good at reading my Bible, good at praying, good at, like, all of these disciplines that the real goal of it is to whatever expression to bring you a greater awareness of his presence in your life. [00:24:30] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [00:24:31] Speaker A: That's the point of it. [00:24:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:32] Speaker A: And that's. That's when. Because then if we're all like, okay, like, we've got to be unified around Sabbath and having, you know, silence and solitude and community and all of that, everyone's going to be like, mine looks completely different to yours. But if the awareness is of. Everyone wants to grow in awareness of Christ becoming more like Him. [00:24:51] Speaker B: Good. [00:24:52] Speaker A: Then unity is not going to be harmed. [00:24:54] Speaker B: No. Because we're all aiming the same way. [00:24:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:24:55] Speaker B: And the goal is the exact same. Just the expression of achieving the goal is different. [00:25:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:25:01] Speaker B: Yeah. Something that's popped into my mind is here we go. Like people. I. And I'm not having a go at, I guess this to start with. So before you get mad, listen to the whole thing. But it's like people that identify themselves as creatives, I think can sometimes then people who aren't artsy discount themselves as being creative. [00:25:28] Speaker A: I can't make any of that. Yeah. [00:25:30] Speaker B: Yeah. Or I can't. I can't write songs. So I'm not a creative. It's like, well, you created in the image of a Creator, so there actually should be an expression of creativity in your life. And I would say if there's not an expression of creativity in your life, there's an area of God that you aren't experiencing and he wants you to experience that. [00:25:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:25:53] Speaker B: And again, it's going well. Okay. Within my personality that the Lord is revealing to me what is the expression of creativity. [00:26:00] Speaker A: And it may not look the same. [00:26:02] Speaker B: Hey. [00:26:02] Speaker A: As the creative team. And. Yeah. [00:26:04] Speaker B: I'VE watched some people with an Excel spreadsheet, and, man, they're creative. Genuinely. Like, it's a genuine thing. [00:26:14] Speaker A: Absolute pros. Yeah, yeah. [00:26:16] Speaker B: But, like, we've. We've boxed in or even, like, you know, business strategists, people that, like, start businesses. [00:26:23] Speaker A: That is creative. [00:26:23] Speaker B: That's creative. So, like. So I think even in that respect, we need to go, okay, I'm made in the image of creator, so what does creativity look like in my life and in my expression of that? And it doesn't mean you all need to go and pick up some paint. Like. [00:26:43] Speaker A: Yeah, because that's. Then it's like, oh, well, if that's what creativity looks like, we all go do that. But. But it's not. Yeah, yeah, it's good. It's about. Because there's. It's that. I love that. The different aspects of, like, who God's made you to be. I remember one of my Bible college lecturers, he was like. He was talking about the Bible. He's like, if someone said to a Jewish, you know, scholar that this Bible verse means this and only this interpretation, they just be like, mate, you're dumb. Like, there's a. It's like a multifaceted diamond that, like, you twist it. The light's sort of different. That's how we're made. Yeah. [00:27:19] Speaker B: We're fashioned fashion beautifully. [00:27:21] Speaker A: Yeah. With complete, maybe slightly different expression or. Yeah. But it's all. It's all part of the same. The person gets the same glory. Who's God? [00:27:29] Speaker B: Totally. [00:27:30] Speaker A: So, yeah. [00:27:31] Speaker B: 100%. Yeah. Even, like, giving in areas of your life that we almost have boxed into. That's the way you do that in the Christian walk. I'm thinking, like, reading your word or prayer, actually journeying. Ask some people some questions to start with. But also I ask Holy Spirit, like, how. How should I pray? [00:27:57] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:27:58] Speaker B: How. Like, what is a way that you want to show me how to read your word today? I remember. So, like, for, you know, last year, I committed to doing a full Ironman triathlon, which you got to put a lot of hours in training, right? [00:28:13] Speaker A: Just a few. [00:28:14] Speaker B: Yeah. And there was people that genuinely said to me, like, oh, like, you know, that's gonna. That time's gonna have to come from your time with the Lord. And I remember I was on a bike ride one time and had ear plugs in, just, like, listening podcasts, whatnot. And I, like, just paused the podcast and I was just chatting with the Lord. And in that moment, he was like, see, you can experiencing. You can experience Me here and my whole paradigm shifted. And I've had times where I've had to, like, pull onto the side of the road and jump off my bike because I've just been encountering the Lord to an extent where I've got tears in my eyes and I can't see where I'm riding. [00:28:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:28:58] Speaker B: And I think, again, it. It took me going, hold up. The Lord wants my whole life. [00:29:07] Speaker A: Giving him permission. [00:29:08] Speaker B: Yeah. And I have this desire. And I love writing. I love, like, I love these things. So why wouldn't, like, a good father who loves to enjoy the things their son loves to enjoy, why wouldn't he want to meet me in that space? [00:29:26] Speaker A: 100%. [00:29:27] Speaker B: And it actually changed my prayer life. Hey, like, yeah, I. I still, like. I still love, you know, going after it and pacing up and down the, like, room, all that sort of stuff. But it. It became a time where the Lord would speak to me and rather where I'm making my supplications to the Lord. [00:29:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:29:48] Speaker B: It was this space of, okay, Lloyd, I'm gonna go for a ride. Speak. [00:29:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:29:54] Speaker B: And I'm here listening. [00:29:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:29:57] Speaker B: And that changed my prayer life. [00:29:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:29:58] Speaker B: Completely. But no one ever told me that I could pray on my bike. [00:30:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:04] Speaker B: But that was. It's actually feeling like an It. Once I got. I was like, oh, this is an expression of my prayer life. [00:30:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:12] Speaker B: And it's through my personality. [00:30:14] Speaker A: Yeah. I'm finding the same thing. Like, I think I was chatting to you about this a couple weeks ago. We. The Lord's been, like, prompting me to literally. There's moments where I noticed that my soul needs, like, I'm like, I need God at the moment. Like, I needed to be alone with him, and I feel like I'm just not getting it. Like, sitting in my chair reading the Bible, and I've just felt, like, this thought over and over. Like, just take a walk. And I'm like, I've spent time with the Lord. I'm in my devotional room like this. This is my secret place, man. This is where I'm doing it. [00:30:43] Speaker B: And curse you, devil, for distracting me. [00:30:45] Speaker A: I should be going for. I'll do that after. And then I'll, you know, I'll do that to sort of unwind. And the Lord sort of took me on this journ, and it is taking. I'm still learning how to do this. Or more to. I'm learning how to surrender in this space is to just go for a walk and just be with God, encounter him through, like, even, like, I love Springtime, you're seeing new growth and just encountering God if he's. You're literally walking on a path that he. On a piece of land he has made. [00:31:11] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:12] Speaker A: This is not this. It's not just here he made. And so it's encountering him in creation, which I felt like I never could do, but it's giving myself permission to. God's placed, like, things in. And there's. This is the times where, you know, we're just talking about stuff that I don't lean towards in my personality. But there's. What has God made you for? Maybe it is going on a ride, but. [00:31:33] Speaker B: Or in this season, maybe that he's like, hey, this is what you need right now. [00:31:36] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's like, there's different things where God begins to unravel things in you where you're like, oh, he's made me so different to like, this person's just going after it in prayer. But I'm encountering the Lord just going for a walk at the moment. Like, I'm not even reading my Bible, but he's just bringing stuff into my mind and I'm being ministered to by the Holy Spirit. And it's just like. And it feels different, but it's. It. And I come back from the walk. I'm going. I've just encountered God in a way that I thought I was not allowed to do. [00:32:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:32:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:03] Speaker B: I think just like a sight, like, the tension there is also obviously, like, discipline's important 100% because if I just. [00:32:10] Speaker A: Went on walks now and never read my word, man, my soul is not going to be as sharp. [00:32:15] Speaker B: Yeah. And when you're going on that walk, there's no word of God for the Holy Spirit to bring to remembrance and actually speak to you about. About as you're seeing these things. He's like, yeah, I wrote about this in this scripture and I wrote about that in that scripture. Like, it's still important for both. [00:32:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:29] Speaker B: But I think what we're trying to communicate and almost give permission for is what is your personality's expression of. [00:32:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:41] Speaker B: A need and. Or a Christian practice that we have learned through the Word. This is what we should be doing as Christians. [00:32:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:50] Speaker B: Well, what's your expression in your personality? [00:32:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:52] Speaker B: Your personality will not remove you from that, but it will inform how you engage with it. [00:33:00] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. [00:33:01] Speaker B: Just as your giftings doesn't remove you from the areas that you're not gifted in. [00:33:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:07] Speaker B: But it will change how you are expressing that gifting. Yeah. So, yeah. Do you have any other last thoughts? [00:33:14] Speaker A: No, I was just gonna, like, second what you said, man. Like, give. Like, if you're someone, I just encourage you to have a crack at something that you haven't done. Like, I've got. I've got a couple of things of, like, notes here. [00:33:26] Speaker B: What is it? [00:33:27] Speaker A: Like, different types of prayer. There's something called, like, you know, examine prayers, breath prayers, contemplative. Or like, maybe you're, like, so used to contemplative prayers that God's like, okay, I'm going to teach you how you. [00:33:38] Speaker B: Need to get after it. [00:33:39] Speaker A: I'm going to teach you how to go after the devil, man. [00:33:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:41] Speaker A: And plunder hell. [00:33:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:43] Speaker A: And populate heaven. Like meditation, fasting is something I think our generation could maybe grow in, if that's something. Or solitude and silence, whatever it is. [00:33:52] Speaker B: Service. [00:33:52] Speaker A: Maybe you feel like you're not serving because you're like, nah. Well, it's just not really what I feel called. [00:33:56] Speaker B: I don't see anything in the church that I want to serve in. Yeah, well, hold up. Maybe the church needs something that you can serve. [00:34:02] Speaker A: Yeah, but, yeah, give, like. Yeah, that. That beautiful tension. I need food. I need to eat. But then there's times where it's just like, what. What type? How is God going to feed you today? [00:34:13] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:34:14] Speaker A: The two. [00:34:15] Speaker B: What's my preference of food? And how does. How do I express the same need in my life? [00:34:19] Speaker A: Because if all I ever did for the rest of my life was go on walks, I'm going to realize that. Hang on. God wants to feed me in multiple different ways. [00:34:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:26] Speaker A: It's just becoming aware of how. Of him leading you in that. [00:34:30] Speaker B: Yeah. So I think, no, the answer to the first question, should our personalities, like, completely be uniform? No. But our personality should be transformed. [00:34:41] Speaker A: Yes. [00:34:41] Speaker B: And mature, just like our whole identity in Christ is. And in doing that, we need to actually start to pursue and invite God into areas that we once thought weren't us. [00:34:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:34:55] Speaker B: But actually the Holy Spirit will allow us to see how our personality will shape the experience of those things. [00:35:02] Speaker A: Final thing as well. Maybe you're like someone and you're listening and you feel like revisiting a old discipline feels religious. And maybe God's set me free from that. I used to read the word religiously and say it's really difficult every time I go back into it. What if God wants to redeem that? Just because it's been, you know, a less healthy expression of it in the past doesn't mean that God can't redeem it totally. So invite God back into that and dare to venture back into that type of stuff. Don't rule it off because you've, you know, if I. If you've just experienced one bad aspect or it didn't feel as comfortable, don't rule like it just went off. Go for it again. [00:35:41] Speaker B: Yeah, keep. [00:35:41] Speaker A: If. If you feel like you've become a pro at a discipline, you've missed the point. If the point is I've. I've kept engaging with God. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:35:50] Speaker B: My personality is a way that I can engage further with God. Awesome. I hope that's blessed you. If you got some questions, then get in touch with us. You can ask all the questions and we can go from there. But I hope this, more than anything, I hope this just sparks some questions you might have that you can ask other people. But more importantly, that you can actually take to God and go, hey, I feel like this is who I am. Show me how I can use that to one glorify you and to encounter you in a new way. [00:36:19] Speaker A: It's good. [00:36:20] Speaker B: Pray you are blessed and we look forward to being with you sometime soon. [00:36:24] Speaker A: See you next time. [00:36:25] Speaker B: Bye. [00:36:26] Speaker A: Sa.