Q+A: Answering Your Season 2 Questions!

[00:00:02] Speaker A: Welcome to the YA podcast. Lean in as we dive into the practicals of life with Jesus as spirit filled young adults. [00:00:26] Speaker B: Hello, everyone, and welcome to the final episode of season two of the YA podcast. We have made it again to our q and a episode. I'm happy to be here. It's Pastor Kelsey with you. And I'm joined with three wonderful guests today. Would you like to introduce? [00:00:41] Speaker C: Pastor Thomas is here, and Jess is here. [00:00:44] Speaker A: And Samuel Adabajo. [00:00:46] Speaker B: Hello, everyone. Wherever you are, welcome. Welcome them from your cars and from your living rooms or wherever you guys listen to the podcast. This season we've been talking about the unity of the body, the body of Christ, the beautiful bride that Jesus is returning for. We've covered a whole bunch of different topics, and today the goal of this episode is to take some of your questions and some of the conversations we've been having with you guys and going a little deeper, whether that's deeper around, you know, practical things, whether that's deeper around theology or whatever that is. So we've collated some good juicy questions that we're going to talk about today. They're all a bit random, so there's not really any cohesion to where we're going. So feel free to jump on the ride and we'll see where we end up. [00:01:32] Speaker D: Let's go. [00:01:34] Speaker B: Should we just get straight into it? [00:01:35] Speaker D: Straight into it. First question, Kelsey. [00:01:38] Speaker B: So our first question is around the topic of our place in the body, our gifts to the body. And the question is, it's kind of a two part question. It says, is my gift limited to the corporate gathering? What does it look like for me to use my gift to serve the body outside the four walls of the church? [00:01:58] Speaker D: That's a good question. [00:01:59] Speaker B: Yeah. So not talking about evangelism to non christians, but actually us using the body to serve one another. Sorry. Using our gift to serve one another as the body, but outside of the context of the corporate gathering. [00:02:10] Speaker D: That's good. I'm going to answer, but I would love you to Sam to answer after this, because I feel like you do this really well. We call it Jim Bro's ministry, but I'd love for you to talk about that. Cause genuinely, it's using your gifts outside the corporate gathering and outside of any church program. But this is from the episode that Kels and I were talking about serving, and every gift that God has given is meant to be for the building up of the body of Christ. Obviously, there's multiple expressions of that. Could be evangelism, could be et cetera, but the gift you have should be for building up the body. [00:02:44] Speaker B: And Jess and I also touched on it in our episode, like, practically, what does it look like to serve God? [00:02:48] Speaker D: So we chatted about it a lot of. So the way I would frame it is, can you only build up the body in a corporate gathering? The answer is no. Right. So then, okay, if I have this gift, how does it serve the body outside of the corporate gathering? So I frame it that way so that if we don't give you a practical example of your gifting, you can go away and process that for yourself. But the easiest example that I can think of is if you have a gift of hospitality, inviting people into your house and loving on them, cooking them a meal, having a safe environment for them to be blessed by good food and good family time. That is building up the body. And that's using your gift, given to you by holy spirit as he's willed of hospitality, to edify and beautify the bride of Christ. Outside of the regular kind of church gathering. So, yeah, Sam, do you want to just share a bit of what you do? [00:03:46] Speaker A: Yeah. And firstly, as well, I think I'd just like to say as well that, like, if we were limited purely to corporate gatherings, we'd be severely limited. Yeah. Like, are we just gonna be, I don't know, hospitable to one another just on a Sunday or when we have. [00:04:01] Speaker D: It's good, Sam. [00:04:01] Speaker A: A thing on a Wednesday night or something like that. So it's definitely made for just. [00:04:05] Speaker D: I just love people when it's a life. Group night. [00:04:07] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Is it like, is our walk of faith just for when we're with other people on a Sunday morning? Or is it for our entire life? But I think, yeah, as Thomas said, there's a bit of a gym, bro ministry. But I just found that I liked the gym a lot, and a lot of dudes like the gym as well. So I was like, why not use this as a bit of a way to get to know people? Like, also, it's funny as well, because dudes basically will just bond over anything physical activity wise as well. [00:04:36] Speaker D: You can go deep when they're working out. [00:04:39] Speaker B: Because I sit and have a coffee. No way. [00:04:44] Speaker A: No direct eye contact, nothing like that. Just looking at the ceiling as we're lifting dumbbells. But, yeah, I have, I would say, primarily a pastoral kind of gifting thing as well. And I find as well, in those settings that there's a lot, like, we're all, as dudes, a lot more relaxed to own open up about things as well. And so I found it oftentimes a time where I can, you know, discuss things that are going on in my life, discuss things going on their lives. Like we get to know one another and also like, it's. We can build each other up as well. Yeah. [00:05:16] Speaker D: So you got a pastoral gifting but you're not a pastor. [00:05:20] Speaker A: Yes. [00:05:21] Speaker D: Wow. So you don't have to, you don't have to be on staff at a church with pastoral grace. Great. Awesome. Did you want to jump in, Jesse? [00:05:28] Speaker C: Yeah, I just wanted to add one more thing as well, that like it's not just serving the body within the church setting, but also serving like, all of God's children. Good, as in not just christians. Like we've got a pastoral grace and sitting down and listening to someone and showing them the love of Jesus. Like use that in your evangelism. You don't have to be like an extrovert to evangelize. You can serve God's bigger family that he came for all of with your pastoral grace or with your hospitality grace. Like, I love to cook food for people. Like I would give gifts to my neighbours, stuff like that, that don't know Jesus and that's actually using my gifts to serve the wider body that don't know they're part of the body of Christ yet. Yeah, yeah. [00:06:09] Speaker B: That's so good. And I think, yeah. Something else that comes to mind and this sort of is related to other episodes we did about like, I mean, Jess, earlier we were talking about how do we bring the context of say like the acts two church into our like modern day context. [00:06:27] Speaker D: That's good. [00:06:29] Speaker B: And, you know, obviously as a church we put on programs or we try to create structures and systems to help support the things that we want to see shining through in people's discipleship. But that shouldn't be the be all and end all. Like when you read the scripture, it talks about, you know, they're selling their possessions and belongings and distributing. It's not because they had a meeting and a gathering to come together and sell all their possessions and do a swap and trade. It's because they saw a need and they went and served that need. And so I think it's something that we can be encouraged in is that if we're limiting ourselves to just, you know, the corporate gathering, whatever that looks like in the sense of, I guess like organized gatherings that we come together as the covenant family of God, which is important. If we're limiting the use of our gift to that, we're missing such an opportunity to show people the love of God and to serve one another, and I guess to fulfil Jesus command of love the Lord your God and love others. Loving others doesn't just shine through in organized structure. It should shine through just in the overflow of who we are in our own relationship with God. [00:07:32] Speaker D: Like, quick, practical. And that example that you pretty much gave is like, if we're only generous in an offering for church, are we actually generous? [00:07:40] Speaker B: Yeah, that's so true. [00:07:41] Speaker D: Because what if we see, you know, we know that our brother in Christ needs something and we could buy it for them. It's like, that's the overflow of generosity and the overflow of God's love for that person in that moment and the gift of generosity in our lives. [00:07:56] Speaker A: Yeah. And I would also say as well that, like, probably in a corporate setting, like an official, organized gathering type thing, it's probably the easiest context to do it as well. I think where we're really pushing the boundaries of our, I guess, you know, obedience to God and service to one another and stuff like that is when we do it in all circumstances, you know? Yeah, that's great. [00:08:19] Speaker C: Jesus said, like, love those that can't pay you back, essentially. So in the body of, like, in the church setting, it's easier to know, oh, that person can pay me back. Whereas when you're just loving a stranger, it's good. That's good. [00:08:34] Speaker B: The next question is very practical, but I feel like something that us as young adults can lean into and grow from, because I feel like we've all been here at one point in our lives, specifically within the context of the corporate gathering, how do I serve the body? Well, without compromising on my capacity or boundaries, we're all very good. [00:08:56] Speaker D: Everyone's just, like, nodding and staring and thinking something. I would say, I'm not gonna. I won't answer the question directly just yet, but I think something to think about. If you're asking things like, how do I ensure that my boundaries or my capacity is not, like, essentially you're asking, like, how do I make sure I don't get burnt out or something like that, I think you need to take an audit on your boundaries. And if those boundaries are actually biblical boundaries or they're self serving boundaries, I'll use a very personal example. I like my alone time. I love people, but I'm very happy to have my alone time. But sometimes, and sometimes the Lord's like, no, go hang out with those people after church. I'm like, I'm tired. I don't want to. It's very easy for me to say no. I'm stewarding my rest and I'm stewarding my energy by saying no, even though me enforcing that boundary is actually disobedience in that moment, because I've been. Holy Spirit's impressed upon me to actually overstep the natural boundary that I would like to enforce. So, yeah, you might want to restate the question, but I just wanted to add that caveat of, if, you know you need to do something, but you're using a boundary to not do it, it's disobedience. [00:10:31] Speaker B: Yeah, totally. And I think, like, the principle of what you're saying can apply both ways. [00:10:36] Speaker D: Totally. [00:10:37] Speaker B: Because, for example, if you're a crazy, extroverted person and you do have a natural high capacity and you'd love to be around people and you love to serve, often they're the sorts of people that we can sometimes see. Or I know I've been there before as well, serving in ten different teams, and they're never sitting in a service because they're always rostered on something. And it's almost the flip of what you were saying, of there's actually a boundary they need to protect. But almost like the motivation. It's almost like a rechecking of the motivation as well. [00:11:08] Speaker D: Yeah. Yeah. [00:11:09] Speaker B: Do you want me to reread the question? [00:11:10] Speaker D: Yeah, because I think we've placed the caveats. Now we can answer the question, how. [00:11:14] Speaker B: Do I serve the body? Well, without compromising on my capacity or boundaries. Jess, do you want to maybe jump in? [00:11:20] Speaker C: Yeah, I guess the immediate thing that comes to mind for me is, like, a lot of everything that I'm saying comes from Jesus's words in Matthew specifically. But Jesus said, let your yes be yes and your no be no. [00:11:32] Speaker D: Good. [00:11:32] Speaker C: So don't. Like, I am the chief of sinners in this department, but don't say that you can do things if you know deep down you can't do them. [00:11:40] Speaker D: Yeah, good. [00:11:41] Speaker C: And, like, when you say yes to a commitment, feel free to ask questions of the person. Like, is this going to be more than this one time? Or, like, try and understand what you're saying yes to, and it should be on the person asking that to give clear expectations. But if not, get those expectations. So you know what you're saying yes to. So then you're not bailing every last minute because you can't do it. But also, like, if you're stewarding yourself, well, your capacity is going to be better. Like, if you're getting good sleep. You can actually serve the body more. If you're taking care of yourself and you're alone time with Jesus, then, you know, I find, and I think I mentioned this in our serving episode as well, Kelsey. But, like, if I'm not spending time with Jesus in the morning, it's hard for me to come to church on a Sunday morning and serve because I just want to receive. But if I'm stewarding myself and my relationship with God well, I can serve better. And it's not about, we're not saying, like, you need to do all things all the time, but actually, you can have adequate and accurate boundaries if your stewardship is first dealt with well. [00:12:49] Speaker D: Yeah, I mean, Jesus, like, went hard in some times of ministry and prayed for a lot of people and went hard, but he balanced that with withdrawing. And so, like, what you're saying, it's, how do I serve the body well? The only way to serve the body well is to steward your time well. Otherwise you won't be serving the body well. You know, it's budgeting time is the same as budgeting finances. It's like, you need to place the priorities in the right place. Like, if we're christians and we do everything unto God's glory, just the way we budget our finances to give God glory, we should budget our time to give God glory. And non negotiables are in that you have to sleep. So that's in the budget, that sort of stuff. So. Yeah, yeah. [00:13:39] Speaker A: And before I say this as well, I firstly don't want to disregard the fact that people have been potentially, like, taken advantage of in your church setting as well. [00:13:50] Speaker D: Very true. [00:13:51] Speaker A: I think there's definitely things. Precautions you can put in place as well. Like, I think I found helpful to me to have mentors that I'm accountable to as well, as well, who will be able to lead and guide me and be able to pray into things as well that I'm committing myself to and all that kind of stuff. Obviously, I'm not saying every time you want to go out to dinner with your friends, pray before you go. But, like, yeah, if you are going to really fully commit to, I don't know, an area of serving or something like that, and you're confused and stuff like that, that has been helpful to me as well. But on the other side of that, I do think that serving requires sacrifice. Right. Even as Jesus. Yeah, even as Jesus served us by, you know, dying for our sins and everything like that, it required a literal sacrifice of his life and everything. And I think it's the same for us as well, that it will require some level of stretch as well. So not every time that you feel worn out, will it always be that I am in the wrong area? [00:14:51] Speaker D: Good. [00:14:52] Speaker A: Yeah, that's true. But it is a journey of figuring out, okay, am I in the wrong area, or is this just a stretch for me in this? [00:14:58] Speaker D: Really good. [00:14:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:15:00] Speaker C: And if I can just add one more thing onto that. What you were saying earlier, thomas, it's like, if I only do what I think I'm capable of doing and never, like, allow my boundaries, allow my capacity to be stretched a little bit, it also shows a lack of trust in the Lord. Like, I can actually trust God. Like, when I go out late, when I would rather be alone, and I feel like I should go out and invest into these people, it's like, am I trusting God to sustain me? If I feel like this is the right thing to do, am I trusting him as well? Not just leaning on my own strength, but his. [00:15:33] Speaker D: So can I summarize? I'll just put two words out there that summarize pretty much everything we've said. How do I serve in a way that is beneficial for the body, but also not burning me out? Two words, stewardship of time and obedience to the word of God. Because if we're obeying what God has asked us to do, that's where the trust in him. If he's asking us, then we trust that he will provide for us. And if we're stewarding our time, well, then that adds that we can actually be more obedient if we're stewarding time. So I think it's stewardship and obedience. [00:16:05] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:16:06] Speaker B: Yeah. Can I add one more thing? Go for it. And I feel like this falls within stewardship and also, what Sam was just saying before, but have really clear and open and transparent communication with your uplines is going to save a lot of practical grief in your life in the sense of, like, if you feel like you're being rostered too much, talk to your upline about it. [00:16:28] Speaker D: Don't wait till they ask you, yeah. [00:16:30] Speaker B: Don't wait till the day of and realize you're really tired, and then cancel your PCO request, and they're going, what the heck? Like, I thought you were gonna be here. Or, you know, like a classic one we always find, say, with our youth team is like, when uni time, when it's exam time, you guys are under a lot of pressure, but we don't always know that, so we need that communication to be clear. For us. And that means we can adjust our rosters to make sure that is actually serving you well as well. But we don't know what we don't know. Your uplines don't know what they don't know. So having that clear communication with them and that's, again, stewardship of yourself, that you're being the best steward of yourself before you're expecting someone else to be able to steward you. Well, if that makes sense. [00:17:11] Speaker D: Yeah, it's good. [00:17:14] Speaker B: Ready to move on to the next question? [00:17:15] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:17:16] Speaker B: Cool. So the next question we have is coming back to the episode we did about spiritual covering and talking about what it means to be under spiritual recovering and to have mentors. And the question that's being asked is, how do I set appropriate boundaries with my mentor? [00:17:33] Speaker D: Yeah, good question. Do you have something to say? [00:17:38] Speaker A: Yes. I think an important thing is when you start a mentorship relationship that you've clearly outlined what it's about. Cause not every mentorship relationship is for everything in your life holistically. Right? [00:17:55] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:17:56] Speaker A: Sometimes you have work mentors, sometimes you have, like, mentors going through who are there for you for a specific area of your life. You know what I mean? So you being the mentoree, going to them and being like, hey, I would like to engage with this type of thing or something like that, to be mentored in this, this and that, and then you guys can discuss exactly how you want to go about that. That was just a quick thought. [00:18:20] Speaker D: No, that's good. [00:18:21] Speaker B: Yeah, that's good. [00:18:21] Speaker D: I think even from like, a context of mentoring people, and often what I will ask them is, what are the areas that you're inviting me to speak into? And then when they list out, I'm like, okay, so clarifying, those are the areas that you're giving me authority to call you out on and to call you up into one that helps them set the boundaries of what I can speak into, but also clarifies that they're inviting me to call them out even when it's uncomfortable, even when I might be touching on some things that they don't necessarily want to be touched on. But we're being upfront in the beginning going, no, no. Like, this is the boundary that we're being set. Yeah. And something that I remember Doctor Mike always saying he wrote a good mentoring book on. It's called mentor me. But something he talks about is mentoring is often seasonal. And so that's coming back to, like, Sam, you was talking about, you know, clarifying the purpose and what the areas you are. I think also clarifying the seasonality of it and being okay to, to change the relationship when the relationship needs to be changed. I just add that because I think sometimes we don't reevaluate our mental relationships. We sometimes just ghost them or something like that. Does that make sense? Like, the timing factor, I think is important when we're talking about boundaries because the boundaries could change later on. I have some other thoughts, but I'll chuck to you, Jess. [00:19:55] Speaker C: I mean, I don't have a lot to say on this specifically, but I will just say one thing, which is that it's important to, like, as you're getting more mature and you're growing in yourself, to also be able to just take responsibility for your own decisions and not like, oh, this person told me to do this and then just blindly follow, like, obviously you're going to a mentor because they have more wisdom in a specific area than you do, more life experience and you can glean from that. But at the end of the day, like, you must take responsibility for your own life. And I think sometimes it can be easy to go to lots of different people to get lots of different opinions on something and then that just leaves you sort of worse out. You're like trying to get all the opinions from people that are mentors or spiritual fathers and mothers in your life, but it's almost like because you're looking for a confirmation bias, you're looking for someone to confirm what you already know. So if you're committing to someone in a specific area, be willing to go into the wrestle with them, but also take responsibility, your own decision. [00:20:57] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And. Sorry. Yeah. Just as the Holy Spirit is in every single one of us and as you test a word and stuff like that on your own. So to should we like weigh as well? Like there's obviously you put a lot. You pick someone to be a mentor or they pick you or whatever, however it works. But because there's some level of trust as well, you have to be able to trust your mentor as well. But yeah, you do need to weigh at yourself as well. The advice as well that's been given as a good mentor, you should be able to take that advice on regardless of the fact that you like it or not or whether it is different to what you expected or not, you should be able to take it on, think on it, prey on it, all that kind of stuff. [00:21:44] Speaker D: You should also be able to disagree and not end the relationship. [00:21:48] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. [00:21:51] Speaker D: So, yeah. Like, that was one, like, I think a hard boundary for all mentor relationships is that it should never be them telling you what to do in the sense of, you need to do this right now, and if you don't, then I'm not your mentor. Like, do you know what? That's where it steps into manipulation. So I think that's always a hard boundary. The boundary should always be that I've still got holy spirit in me. Just as a prophet doesn't get to just prophesy and I don't get the right of going, is that God? Is that not God? It's the same thing with a mentor, whatever they say. We still have the responsibility as mentor to weigh that. Like, Sam's talking about, is this, in God's heart? Is this not? Does this speak to something that God's been speaking to me about? So I think that's probably a pretty hard boundary, is what I'm talking about. The other two things I was just going to add. Intimacy of relationship is always correlated to history with that person. So you don't dive to the most intimate depths with someone that you don't have relational history with. So I think that boundary is, some of the boundaries are dependent on that. And the other thing is that I think boundaries are also dependent on the maturity of both parties. So the more mature a mentee is, the, I guess, more ownership that they can take over their own staff. Just like a baby can't do things, but an adult can do more things. So the way someone mentors an adult in the faith is different to someone mentoring a baby in the faith. So they're not boundaries to put in, but they're things that inform the boundaries you place. [00:23:32] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think something that's really helpful and it really encapsulates that, is being self aware coming into the mentor relationship that you're pursuing, because, you know, if you can be sober minded to yourself and go, you know what? I am a pretty baby Christian, and I think, like, I'm coming into this relationship because I need that extra support that's going to dictate the way that you engage with the, I guess, level of accountability or the level of input that that mentors bring into your life. Whereas if you know that you're a little bit further along and the boundaries of the relationship that you're actually creating is more like, hey, I'd love you to be praying for me and, like, call me out on stuff and help me grow and blah, blah, blah. But you know that you also have that maturity to be able to discern things for yourself. I think that plays into it as well. And the only other thing I was going to say is, when things start getting tough in your mentor relationship, remember why you entered into that relationship in the first place. No one enters a mentoring relationship if they don't want to be stretched. [00:24:35] Speaker D: Yeah. Good. [00:24:36] Speaker B: Otherwise, we would just do everything by ourselves. If I never want to be challenged, I'm never going to ask someone to challenge me. So remember that, and remember that if you've chosen your mentor well and there's someone that genuinely loves you, they have your best interests at heart. Their goal isn't to break you down every time you catch up for coffee. Their goal is to actually encourage you and bring you closer to being more christlike. So when that tough, I guess, like, challenge comes or that being held accountable or whatever, it might sting in the moment. But know that they actually have your best interests at heart. And remember that, especially if it's a boundary or a conversation you've had right up front, it's gonna make that a lot easier to remember back on and go, yeah, like, I asked for this, essentially. [00:25:26] Speaker D: Yeah, I wanted the medicine. [00:25:28] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Cool. On the topic of hard conversations, and this is more in the context, I mean, it could be in your mental relationship, but also in your every other relationship on planet Earth. Is there a difference between conflict and offense? And how do I know when something needs to be addressed with someone versus when I just need to deal with my own emotions? [00:25:59] Speaker D: Some conflicts are offense. [00:26:03] Speaker B: What do you mean by that? [00:26:04] Speaker D: But not all offenses are conflicts. I think the distinguishing point, I think offense is often our response to something, and so then it's working out okay. Is my response actually more to do with something going on inside of me rather than what the person did or said? Whereas conflicts is like someone has wronged me or like there actually is an interaction that needs to be sorted out. So conflict, I need to sort it out with the person. Offense, I often need to just sort out in my own heart with God. [00:26:48] Speaker B: Yeah. And sometimes both those things can happen simultaneously. [00:26:51] Speaker D: Correct. [00:26:52] Speaker B: It's like the scripture about dealing with the log in your own eye before pointing out the speck in the brothers. You might genuinely have something you need to confront with someone. But if I feel offended, I need to take responsibility for my offense before I enter into that conversation. Otherwise, it's really hard to be objective and actually confront in love. Cause I'm confronting in my offence, not confronting in love. [00:27:16] Speaker D: Yeah. Yeah. [00:27:17] Speaker B: Do you wanna jump in, Jess? [00:27:18] Speaker D: Jess, is Matthew 18 open? [00:27:20] Speaker C: Oh, Matthew 18 is a great place to go. I think just even what you're saying, Thomas, about offences and conflict, like, conflict is generally designed for there to be a resolution. [00:27:32] Speaker D: Yeah. Good. [00:27:32] Speaker C: And offense is one party doing something and then the other party chooses to respond to it, whereas conflict is two, both entering into a fight, usually. [00:27:41] Speaker D: Yeah. Yeah. [00:27:42] Speaker C: So someone once said, offence is taken, not given. So I kind of use this as a blanket rule, although I will contradict that in a second, because, like, if I'm offended at something you said, most likely a me problem, and I need to look at, why am I responding this way to what you're saying? [00:28:04] Speaker D: Could be a misinterpretation. Yes, but it's a genuine thing to work through. [00:28:09] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. So I think it's important to assess what's going on inside my heart and what you said as well. Like, what's the motivation? So if I'm calling out something in you because I have an issue and I just want to get even and revenge, that's wrong motivation from my part, which causes offence. And, yes, he chooses to take offence in response to my behaviour, but I've actually done something with the wrong motivation and cause offence. So Jesus says in Matthew 18, woe to you through whom offence comes. So you're actually saying, of course offenses are gonna come, but if you cause it, that's even worse. [00:28:47] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. [00:28:47] Speaker C: So if I'm bringing up something which could cause conflict and friction, because I know it's gonna be for your benefit, then we should enter into that and come to a resolution through that based. [00:28:57] Speaker D: On Matthew 18, which is, you know, go to that person. If it doesn't work out, involve a third party. If that doesn't work out. Well, Matthew 18 says involve the entire church. Probably context would have been something like talking to a jewish context, being involved the community. So for us, it's the community of believers, and then that's kind of the broadest way that it should go. And, yeah, I mean, Paul talks about it to the corinthian church because they were, like, dealing with their offenses in the public courts. And Paul's like, what are you doing? He's like, your brothers and sisters in Christ sorted out with each other, rather than going to the secular place to sort out your offenses. So, yeah, that's just on. Conflict is like, let's sort it out in the church. Let's not go to the public forum to tear down the body of Christ. [00:30:00] Speaker C: Absolutely. I'm 100% sure of that. [00:30:04] Speaker D: But offense and conflict is what we're talking about currently. [00:30:08] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think, as well, I don't know where I heard this, but I think the wisdom is true. But when, let's say there's two people involved in a disagreement, while there is communication, even if it is still disagreement at that point, but there's still both sides engaging with it, there's relationship still at that point. It's when that ends and we go away from it and there's no resolution. The resolution doesn't necessarily mean you have to completely agree on the same point, but there's some sort of resolution. You've either agreed to disagree but still live on as maintaining relationships, like, you know, or brother and brother and sister and sister. I don't know why I said brother and sister specifically, but, yeah. Like, while there's still communication and there is still relationship there, and that's healthy. But the moment that we step away from it and we choose to hold on to the bitterness that we are feeling. [00:31:02] Speaker D: Yeah, that's good, Sam. [00:31:03] Speaker A: That's when the offense has taken over this particular disagreement. [00:31:07] Speaker D: I think that's it. Like, offense often causes bitterness, whereas conflict is just like, oh, there's something that's happened that we need to sort out together, but that offends, breeds that bitterness. [00:31:16] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. [00:31:18] Speaker B: Yeah. I think on a practical front, the ways that I kind of try to approach this in my own life is, you know, for example, Tom's an easy one because it comes up in marriage all the time. You're always having tough times. [00:31:30] Speaker D: Get married. It's just a mirror. [00:31:33] Speaker B: Get married. [00:31:36] Speaker D: You want to get offended? Get married. [00:31:40] Speaker B: It's like a mirror. Right. But seriously, like, there might be times where Tom and I have a really intense conversation, and I might go away feeling that, like, sting in my heart, or I might be feeling, like, offended or upset about it. My first responsibility before I start throwing accusations at Tom of, like, he's hurt me and he was in the wrong and rah, rah, rah. The first thing I need to do is assess my own heart. [00:32:03] Speaker D: Good. [00:32:04] Speaker B: Am I misinterpreting something he's saying? Am I choosing to be hurt by something he's saying when I know he actually meant it? In love. Am I choosing to be offended? Am I choosing to be bitter? Is there anything here I actually need to take to the Lord before I go and confront him about something? And taking that time to actually just process with the Holy Spirit, and, you know, nine times out of ten, you go, oh, hang on. I know he actually had my best intent at heart, and he didn't mean that the way that I'm interpreting it. So, Lord, would you help me to take this bitterness off my own heart or insecurity or whatever? [00:32:38] Speaker D: Yeah. Yeah. [00:32:40] Speaker B: Because if, you know, you have a hard conversation with someone and you leave with that feeling of insecurity, I can go back to that person a thousand times, and they can reaffirm and reaffirm and reaffirm. But at the end of the day, if I feel insecure, that's something I need to bring before the Lord. That's not someone else's responsibility. That's my responsibility. So that's really step one. But then step two, once you've dealt with that, with the Lord, I feel like it gives you a clarity of perspective to go, okay, objectively, is it actually something I need to address here? And sometimes the reality is there is because sometimes people say things that are really hurtful that either they do mean and that needs to be addressed, or they genuinely didn't mean or they didn't mean it that way, that you can bring that reflection to them so that they can also grow as a person as well. But ensuring that we've removed the log out of our own eye first means that we can come into those conversations with the right perspective, which is love and which is reconciliation. And I feel like we might have talked about this in another episode, but I feel like often when we come back into that conflict, especially when it's not on the offensive, it's actually, we're fighting on the same team. We actually want a resolution here. So often you come back into that conversation, you go, hey, I've actually had some time to reflect, and, you know, I'm bringing this to you because I feel like maybe this conversation we had made me feel like this, and I just want to bring that to you. So often they're like, oh, my gosh, I'm so sorry. I didn't even mean it like that. And then you realize something that could have become a root of bitterness in your heart by just dealing with the Lord first and then coming back to that confrontation and having that, I guess, addressing that head on, you've achieved that reconciliation and that, I guess, restoring a relationship that you want. But then other times, it's like, okay, I might be bringing something to Tom going, hey, that actually really hurt my feelings. And it's actually a valid thing that I've processed with the Lord, and that gives Tom an opportunity to grow and to, I guess, see maybe a blind spot that he had. Does that make sense? [00:34:42] Speaker D: Yeah. You are a wise woman. That was great. [00:34:46] Speaker C: And just one more thought in, like, we can also not turn every offence into a conflict. [00:34:53] Speaker D: Yeah, good. [00:34:53] Speaker C: We can actually just bring it to the Lord. And one of my prayers recently has been, Lord, help me to become unoffendable. Help me to actually not get offended at things all the time, because I recognise that I'm prone to offence when people call out things in me that aren't as they should be and from the right heart in the right place, because people that I have good relationship with are saying, oh, you shouldn't do that, whatever. So actually, my prayer being like, lord, help me to not take offense at everything that I don't need to go back to that person and complain to them about what they said, but to go, like, ahead of time before the offense even comes and say, lord, help me to help you with my heart. [00:35:32] Speaker B: So good. [00:35:33] Speaker A: And like Kelsey was already saying before as well, I think you touched on it, I believe. But, like, dealing with the insecurities as well, when you feel that bitterness as well, this can be a time for self reflection about, okay, so this very much offends me. There might be an insecurity there about something, and now I'm gonna sort out that insecurity with the Lord. [00:35:59] Speaker D: You know, I might just take this a little bit further because I feel like we're starting to hit on something that I think is an important topic before we finish off the season on the body of Christ. And Chelsea preached a great word a couple weeks ago at youth that really, like, hit the nail on the head when it comes to this. And she was talking about being refined by relationship. And that part of the reason God places us in a family be that natural and then places us in a church community, places us in friendships is that iron sharpens iron. And that's not a, that's like iron sharpening iron. Yeah, like iron sharpening iron. It's gonna create some heat, it's gonna create some friction. But the other side of that is both pieces of iron is sharper. And it's this beauty that we are placed in relationship to be refined. That relationship should make us all better. And I think that's why how we deal with conflict, how we deal with offense determines if that truth is true. That relationship refines or relationship doesn't refine, is our response to these things. But I just wanted to touch on that. Like, relationship is hard for a reason. It's refining us. Relationship has heat because it requires heat to refine. So, yeah, every time there's that friction, that heat, it's like Sam said that it's that invitation to a greater refining and a greater christlikeness. [00:37:46] Speaker C: And I think it's so important to have those close relationships that you allow to refine you, because if you only get around friends that are superficial and they only just tell you how great you are, you're never actually gonna get better. I'm so thankful for my family. Like, obviously, I don't know. I'm not in a marriage context, but I'm very close with my parents and my siblings that can tell me, oh, like, you know, call stuff out and actually help to refine me, which if I didn't have that, I would never be growing and never. Like, I need to allow them to speak into my life. And I think that's important in the church context as well, that we are covenant family, that we do allow each other to speak into our lives so that we can be refined through that pain. [00:38:28] Speaker D: Yeah, it's good. [00:38:28] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think, yeah, obviously, we desire that in our close relationships. But I would also say that refining comes through every part of the book. Cause I'm sure we can all think of people who really rub us up the wrong way, or we're like, they're really weird. I don't know why they do that. Like that or that person. I always feel awkward when I'm near that person or, you know, whatever it is for you in your context, but actually taking that almost second to go when you have a response to something going, hang on. Hold up, Holy Spirit. What was that? [00:39:04] Speaker D: Yep. [00:39:05] Speaker B: And what are you doing right now that I need to lean into, for example? I don't know. I used to just being really vulnerable and honest. Cause I used to see people, you know, rolling around on the floor having encounters with a lord, and I'd be like, that's so dumb. They're being so showy right now. And it would be like judgment would just be almost my natural response to that, and I had to be like, hold up. Hang on. What was that? That's actually me being judgmental. That's me judging a part of the body of Christ. That's me judging a manifestation of God that I have no right to have judgment over. And so that's actually something that even without having close relationship, it's still a response to a part of the body that God loves. And I'm choosing to have a response in a certain way that I had to go, hang on, God. Like, I need to choose to be refined by this moment and, you know, actually allow God to show us what he's doing through people that we don't always see with our natural eyes and actually allow ourselves to grow from that as well. [00:40:04] Speaker C: Yeah, I've had a very similar experience. I would be very offended by people laughing because my. Usually when I encounter God, it turns into so I was, like, so offended that people would laugh in the presence of God. I'm like, God is so holy. Like, that's not fear of the Lord. And then I realized, I'm like, actually, this is not necessarily a them problem. Like, Lord, what is this in me that needs to be refined and allowing those people to draw that out? [00:40:32] Speaker B: So true. [00:40:32] Speaker D: Sucks, doesn't it? Come on, I'm just being real. Real. Like, it was, like, I thought relationship was all meant to be fun. Rosy, everybody. [00:40:42] Speaker A: It's our own road trips. [00:40:43] Speaker B: Yeah, just tell me how great I am all the time. [00:40:46] Speaker D: Yeah, but, like, it's the true. It's. It's so true that God's one of great. God's greatest tools for refining his people is relationship, which is the gospel, because the gospel puts us into relationship with God. Like, the gospel isn't, oh, I died so that you could be saved. Like, that's. It's, I died so you could come into relationship with me, so that I could refine you and make you more like me. And so relationship with God makes us more like him. It refines us. So why wouldn't relationship with his other image bearers also make us more like him? Like, if we are all image bearers of God, then being in relationship with another image bearer should make us more like God, because what we behold, we become. So that's not just beholding God in the secret place, but if we are all truly being image bearers, like we have been designed to be. Genesis 126. Beholding each other, beholding another part of the body should make us more like God because we should be beholding Christ in them. But sometimes I think we get so caught up with the flesh that we see that we don't get to behold Christ in them. [00:42:03] Speaker B: And also, everything that we ever extend to someone else is something that has already been extended to us by Christ. [00:42:10] Speaker D: Good. [00:42:12] Speaker B: He doesn't ask us to do anything he hasn't first already done for us. [00:42:15] Speaker D: He's the source. [00:42:18] Speaker B: More a thousand times. [00:42:20] Speaker D: For me today, because it's like, I can't love that person. It's okay. Jesus is the source of love. I can't forgive that person. Lucky. You don't have to. Jesus has already forgiven them, so just extend the forgiveness that Christ gave to you, to them. It's. Yeah, it sucks because we don't have any excuse. [00:42:42] Speaker B: I love that. [00:42:43] Speaker D: I'm done now. [00:42:44] Speaker B: I feel like it's a good place to land. Thank you, everyone, for joining us for season two. We pray that it's blessed you. We pray that it's challenged you again. If you have any questions, you're always welcome to reach out to us on Instagram or via email. Otherwise, we'll be taking a short break for a few weeks, and then we'll. [00:43:02] Speaker A: Be back with season three. [00:43:04] Speaker D: See y'all.