Conversations: Fellowship

[00:00:02] Speaker A: Welcome to the YA podcast. Lean in. As we dive into the practicals of life with Jesus as spirit filled young adults. Hello, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the YA Podcast. Today you are joined by Kelsey and Thomas. It's good to be with you. [00:00:38] Speaker B: It's good to be here. [00:00:39] Speaker A: How's your week been? [00:00:40] Speaker B: It's been great. [00:00:41] Speaker A: That's good. [00:00:42] Speaker B: But it's good to be back, chatting. All things the body. [00:00:45] Speaker A: Yeah. I hope you guys have enjoyed the first couple of episodes. You learnt something last week with Sam and Tom. [00:00:52] Speaker B: Yeah. We got to talk all about dwelling places. [00:00:54] Speaker A: That was very important. God's actually been trying to dwell since the beginning, not just in the New Testament church. [00:01:01] Speaker B: Yeah. Just that translation from a place to a people. Right. And that's kind of the crux of, I guess, where the reason we spoke about that to start with was to translate from this paradigm of God wants to dwell in places to God wants to dwell in not a person or individual people, but a people. [00:01:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:01:22] Speaker B: And that his heart is for a royal priesthood and a holy nation, and that we would be not just a church, but the church as a gathering. And that then brings us into what we're talking about today, which is obviously fellowship. [00:01:38] Speaker A: Obviously, people didn't know that. [00:01:40] Speaker B: It's obvious to us. [00:01:41] Speaker A: Surprise. [00:01:42] Speaker B: We're talking about fellowship today, so we're talking about fellowship. [00:01:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:01:45] Speaker B: And that is how we actually relate to one. Each other, I guess. The need to relate to one another. And maybe I'd just start with that question, Kels, why do we need community? [00:01:58] Speaker A: Good question. I mean, the simple answer is, we need community because God's created us to be in community. [00:02:05] Speaker B: I think it's a good response. [00:02:06] Speaker A: I mean, even from the very beginning, God said to man, it's not good for you to be alone. Created a woman. [00:02:12] Speaker B: Yeah. Can I just jump in? [00:02:14] Speaker A: Yeah, sure. Wow. That didn't take very long. I started talking about Genesis, and now it's one place to jump in. [00:02:19] Speaker B: That's always the way. But no, I was just gonna jump in and say, like, it wasn't just man wasn't. It wasn't good for man to be alone. Right. Because he had. There was animals. There was some level of non aloneness. [00:02:36] Speaker A: He had God as well, and he. [00:02:37] Speaker B: Had God as well, but it was that Adam named all the animals, and after that, realized there was none to be a partner with him. So it wasn't just, I'm going to create someone so you're not alone. I'm going to create someone so that you are not so that you can actually experience the fullness, which is interesting there, that it was actually that none of the creation was found to be a partner. So it wasn't just, I don't want you to be alone. It's, no, no, I want you to have a partner that desire to be full with another. [00:03:08] Speaker A: Yeah. And so, I mean, I guess bringing that onto a wider scale of what that means for us as the body of Christ now, is that if Adam wasn't meant to be alone and needed an adequate partner, how much more does that show us how we need one another in order to bring about the fullness of the revelation of, I guess, like who God is, the expression of who he is and the expression of his church. And I mean, we spoke about this in the first episode about the way that he's created the body and that each part is important. And I think fellowship, I guess, is bringing that onto that deeper level of actually how we relate to one another. Because I guess there's a, I guess, objective ability to honor one another. [00:03:55] Speaker B: Yes. [00:03:55] Speaker A: But there's a deeper level of relational connection that God wants for us. [00:04:01] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:04:01] Speaker A: He doesn't just want us to. For me to see you and go, oh, yeah, you're a part of the body, so I honour you. But actually that we're supposed to live in connection with one another and dwell together and have that relationship that's beyond just a conceptual thing, but actually a way that we live our lives. [00:04:18] Speaker B: It's not just a mentalist sense to the necessity of each other. I think that's important. It's not just going, yeah, I need you, great, but I never talk to you. Or, yeah, I need you, but I never actually have a relationship with you, which is an interesting thing to talk about, I guess, in a bigger church, because sometimes it can feel like that of, like we're talking about the need for every single member, but we don't necessarily know every single member, but the connection between. Yeah, I guess we'll just dive into that. Like the connection between a finger and the wrist is going to be a closer connection than the finger and the eye. And so just because you don't have a closeness of connection with every member of the body doesn't mean that there isn't a necessity for connection and for relationship, not just a need for one another, but a need for connection with one another. [00:05:12] Speaker A: And I mean, this is pretty evident very early in acts when the Holy Spirit falls in the upper room, Peter goes and preaches 3000 added into the church. And really the next passage after that is talking about how these new believers devoted themselves to the apostles teaching and fellowship, to the breaking of bread and prayers. And there's this commonality that happens in verse 44 of acts two that talks about they all who believed were together and had all things in common. That certainly good phrase and belonging and distributing the proceeds to all as any had need. And I mean, you can go on from there talking about breaking bread together in homes, receiving food, generous hearts, like all of these things that actually became characteristic of I guess this new movement and Christ's new church forming on the earth, that almost a like, no one taught them necessarily how to do this. Obviously they had the apostles teaching them the way Jesus taught them to live as kingdom people. But really, from what we can read in the scripture, the Holy Spirit falls, they get saved and immediately they start living in fellowship together, they start living in community together. And I guess like we want to strive for in an extent is actually that our revelation of Jesus love for us would then translate itself into a love for one another that's not just, oh, I say that I honour you, but we never actually connect and do life together to actually becoming a part of who we are as the body and who we are as Newma young adults and who we are as new machurch, that we actually value fellowship together. [00:06:52] Speaker B: Yeah, the new living translation in John, I can't remember the exact scripture, but it phrases it in a way of they will know you by the love you have for one another. It's like the characteristic of the church. Don't hear that I'm diminishing signs and wonders or the glory or worship or anything like that. That's all there. And yes, it is part of what the church is, but what Jesus said was that my disciples will be known by the love they have, not for God, but the love they have for one another. [00:07:29] Speaker A: Well, I mean, I guess that makes sense when like 90% of the relationship I have personally with God, no one else ever sees. [00:07:39] Speaker B: Yeah, truth. [00:07:41] Speaker A: So if that's the only kind of love that I ever express is vertically towards God, how are people going to know that I love God? [00:07:46] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I mean, part of your love for God is the expression of love for others. [00:07:50] Speaker A: Yes, exactly. [00:07:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:07:52] Speaker A: It's actually how, you know, like, I mean there's the, within the church that I actually think people should, you know, new believers or even people who don't know Jesus yet should walk into a church and feel and see the love for one another. And it makes them go, God's real and Jesus dwells here. [00:08:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:08:09] Speaker A: And also beyond that, we, as believers in the community, the way that we show love for one another and also how we show love for strangers should actually make people go, hang on. I think there's something different about you because I'm not seeing love the way world does love. I'm seeing a love that doesn't really make sense in my paradigm. And then we have the opportunity to go, yeah, that's. Because that's Jesus love. [00:08:29] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. And that's. I guess people go, oh, man, how do we do that? Well, I mean, ephesians two says that we can only do it by Christ. Ephesians two says that it's by Christ. Christ broke down the dividing wall of hostility between man, woman, jew, gentile, slave and free. And that's by Christ. We have unity. And so we don't have unity because we have unity of opinion, and we don't have relationship because we have a unity on what we like. [00:08:57] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think that's probably, I mean, that's a good way to almost identify, I guess, like, where sometimes worldly cultures can creep into the church and actually taint the way we do fellowship together. [00:09:10] Speaker B: We divide lines. [00:09:11] Speaker A: Yeah. Because, you know, it's very worldly, not of kingdom culture, that when you go out into the world, you know, even things like people having the belief that because we don't agree, we cannot be in relationship. [00:09:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:09:29] Speaker A: And, I mean, we see that very prevalent in things like religion of, like, okay, I go onto my uni campus and I tell someone I'm a Christian, and they go, oh, I'm a Muslim, or I'm agnostic, or I'm an atheist. So we can't be in relationship because. [00:09:43] Speaker B: We have different beliefs before it starts. [00:09:45] Speaker A: Yeah. Or, I mean, like, it doesn't even have to be faith. It could be that. I think that going out and partying and drinking on the weekend's okay, but you're not really into that. And so. Because I think that's okay and that's what I think is fun. And you don't think that's fun? We can't be friends because our interests are different. [00:10:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:04] Speaker A: That's not kingdom culture at all, because kingdom culture actually says that love is something that's supposed to be unconditional. [00:10:12] Speaker B: Yeah. We don't rally around our likes and dislikes. We rally around our love for one another. [00:10:16] Speaker A: Yes. And I think something that can sometimes creep its way into the church is we see fellowship as the people I like hanging out with and the people I like doing life with. And we miss the actual, I guess, expression of Jesus unconditional love towards us, which is that even when we were still sinners, Christ died for us. And even in our weakness, he still loves us and extends grace to us. We miss, I guess, that expression towards one another. If all I'm doing is hanging out with people I like, and all you're doing is hanging out with people you like, and we never actually need to show unconditional love for anyone because we're not hanging out with people who test the conditional nature of our love, if that makes sense. [00:10:58] Speaker B: Totally. And I think dive back into more scripture. I guess this is one of the key issues that Paul is addressing when he writes in Romans, is he's writing into a context where Jews and gentiles were unable to gather together as the church because of their differences. Because in Rome, the Jews were still living very. They were adhering very closely to jewish law around things like kosher laws, and because roman wine wasn't kosher, so they wouldn't drink roman wine. And at that time, Christians would always, every time they met, they would meet around the communion meal, not the symbols of wine and bread, and have a little tiny bit of juice and a tiny wafer. It was actually a meal. Right? So how can a jew that is not able to drink the wine and a gentile who didn't care, how do they have fellowship if they're in disagreement over that? [00:12:05] Speaker A: Yeah, because if they were going by a worldly standard, they'd almost just go, oh, well, there's not even any point in having the meal then. [00:12:10] Speaker B: Well, they can't have. They wouldn't be able to have communion if half of them aren't drinking the wine. Cause that's Jesus blood. And that was part of the whole point of having the meal, right? And so Paul, that's why Paul writes so many. He addresses both parties and he's like, hey, Jews, get over yourselves. And you're being legalistic. And Christ died for this. So let's actually realize that we're free now. And then he addresses the gentiles and says, don't get all high and mighty, because just as some of Israel's being cut off, you too can be cut off. And he addresses both in order to bring them together. And I think that is a beautiful picture of the church of, actually, there's, on both sides of division, there's things that we need to learn, we need to grow, and we need to forego for the sake of unity. It's not just one person, it's for both people. So, yeah, that's maybe a good, like, general start. How do we do this? You know, we're talking, we're talking about not defining our fellowship by our likes and our preferences, but defining it as Jesus did and being known for what Jesus wanted us to be known for. And that's our love for one another. How do I love someone I don't like? [00:13:30] Speaker A: Wouldn't we all like to know? Have we all been there before? [00:13:35] Speaker B: And that's all we've been? [00:13:36] Speaker A: If anyone has an answer. Nah, we're just kidding. [00:13:38] Speaker B: It's a tough one, right? [00:13:40] Speaker A: Yeah. Well. Cause I mean, I guess it goes against everything that our natural emotions and preferences want to tell us. [00:13:49] Speaker B: Yeah. Especially today. [00:13:52] Speaker A: Because if I feel hostility towards someone or I feel hostility from someone, my natural response is to want to run away from that. [00:14:00] Speaker B: Yeah. Which I guess even then, I think some of this could actually be a discussion in pride and humility. Right. Is that when we cannot love someone we don't like, it's often because we are elevating our opinions and our preferences above that of God's. And we need to humble ourselves and submit to God. And that way we can actually be in relationship with another because we're not. It doesn't, it no longer matters whether I disagree with you because I'm submitting my preference and I'm humbling myself for the sake of relationship. [00:14:43] Speaker A: Yeah. And I mean, I guess the question is how do we know that it is prideful because it's exalting our thoughts and opinions above God's. Well, the simple answer is God saw his children all as valuable enough to send Jesus to die for, and all of the children are valuable enough to be a part of the body, all of the children are valuable enough to be a part of the royal priesthood. So even if I'm not saying it and even if I'm not thinking it consciously, really, the subconscious belief behind me choosing to isolate someone because of conflict or because of difference is I don't think that person's valuable enough for my love or worthy of my love. So I'm going to isolate myself from them. [00:15:30] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:15:30] Speaker A: When really the love that Jesus displays for us is even though none of us were worthy by his grace, he saved us so that we could be in relationship with our heavenly Father and that we could have access to Jesus and we could live with the Holy Spirit inside of us. So if that was the measure of value that God put on us as his children, even in our unworthiness, even in our sin, who are we to get to decide consciously or subconsciously that someone else is not valuable enough for our love? When Jesus extended that love towards us. [00:16:05] Speaker B: First, where clearly we see what love is, I mean, John chapter 14 says, and this is love, that one would lay down his life for another. And if we move further in the language of laying down one's life for another, it's sacrifice is tied to love. Without sacrifice, it is not love. And so in the sense of how do you love someone that you don't like? I actually think that's the very place that you show your love because you don't like. [00:16:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:39] Speaker B: And so there's a sacrificial element then that actually proves your love to be true without the sacrifice. I question whether it is love. And if it's just like, yeah, does that make sense? [00:16:54] Speaker A: Yeah, that does make sense. And I think, like, something else in this as well, that I think is really important to get across, because if I was to put a practical to this, it would be, well, you know, go out of your way on a Sunday, like, we'll say to people, or, you know, like, we'll kind of say to ourselves, yeah. You know, the Sunday gathering is not about me getting to hang out with all my besties. [00:17:18] Speaker B: Very good. [00:17:18] Speaker A: Of course I'll see them. I'll see. I'll say hi, I'll give them a hug. But, like, my priority on the Sunday and at the Sunday gathering is to seek out the ones who aren't in relationship and fellowship yet and bring them into community. It's not about being fake or putting it on towards people that you don't like. [00:17:38] Speaker B: Very good. [00:17:39] Speaker A: Because I know that if there's someone that either I've had a conflict with, we've had a disagreement. We're not saying maybe. I mean, I guess in our oral, sometimes we have to call people out on things to guard culture, and sometimes people don't like that. Or sometimes people will bring things to us that, you know, they feel heard about or whatever, and we've got to process that. It's not about me going internally. Like, oh, like, I really don't like that person right now. But, you know, we're supposed to have fellowship and love unconditionally, so I'm gonna force myself to put it on so that I guard my own. Like, hey. Oh, my gosh, like, how you going? Like, blah, blah. But inside you're, like, so angry or upset or whatever. Like, that's not what we're saying at all. And I don't think that's Jesus heart at all. But it's actually that in our emotions and in our weakness and in our, I guess, like, thoughts and feelings towards that person or whatever situations happened, it's actually us coming before God first and going, God, give me a revelation of how much you love this person so that I can show true and authentic love towards them, even though I don't feel like it in my own strength right now. [00:18:44] Speaker B: We do this with our youth team all the time. Right. We say in order to actually lead young people adequately and effectively, we first need to ask God how he wants. [00:18:52] Speaker A: To lead them 100%. [00:18:53] Speaker B: Need to get a revelation of how God sees them before we can see them in any light. It needs to be a translate, a transition of. Sorry. A transformation of our eyesight to see through gods. [00:19:07] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think, I mean, a really important scripture, I guess, if we're talking about the specific question of, okay, well, how do I love this person I've had conflict with? Or we're not seeing eye to eye. [00:19:18] Speaker B: On something because we probably touched on that. Like, I just don't know that person. And I don't really care, too now. It's. [00:19:24] Speaker A: Which our response to that is, get over it. Just go and talk to them anyway. You probably end up really loving them. [00:19:28] Speaker B: Yeah. And now it's like, okay, I've had a conflict with someone. I don't see eye to eye. There's angst and anger and bitterness and everything together. What do I do? [00:19:36] Speaker A: Yeah, sorry, quick side thought on that. Get over and just talk to them. [00:19:43] Speaker B: That's practical. [00:19:43] Speaker A: Yeah. Literally, one of our closest friends as a couple. But my closest friend here in Melbourne now simply came out of the fact that I met her maybe once or twice at church. Barely knew her, but was like, nah, I think she's cool. I'll hang out with her. And then we ended up becoming, like, besties. So. [00:19:59] Speaker B: Yeah, just cause you. [00:20:00] Speaker A: When we say, get over it and go talk to them, like, your future bestie might be in that person. So that's like a little side note. You get that one for free. Conflict. I mean, Matthew 18 talks about how we should handle conflict. [00:20:12] Speaker B: Yep. [00:20:13] Speaker A: And really, the key takeaway from that is the first step is always to confront directly. [00:20:19] Speaker B: So I don't get to gossip about it, really. [00:20:22] Speaker A: Dinner? No, absolutely. [00:20:25] Speaker B: So I can't. I can't. Just quick one. I can't. So I'm not going to gossip, but can I debrief with someone external to the problem? [00:20:33] Speaker A: Yes. If you're going to someone who you know is going to point you back to Jesus and is not just sitting with you in the mess and actually just wanting to. [00:20:43] Speaker B: We know those people that are actually going to call us higher and call us out to actually deal with the problem, rather than those people that are just feeding our flesh. [00:20:52] Speaker A: Yeah. And you know those people. [00:20:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:54] Speaker A: You know the ones. You know the ones that even if you think you're debriefing, you're actually going to them because you know that they'll fuel the fire in you. [00:21:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:00] Speaker A: When a deeper one talk to because they're probably the one that you're like, damn, I need to go and talk to so and so about this because they're going to call me higher on this and actually help me out of this. [00:21:08] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:21:09] Speaker A: Um, but it says in Matthew 18 that if there's conflict between you and someone else, that you should confront them directly. [00:21:16] Speaker B: Yep. [00:21:17] Speaker A: And I think the reason this is so important as well is especially if you're already saying, okay, God, like, I actually want to see this person, how you see them. And now you're confronting them in love and saying, hey, we had this issue, or whatever. I just want to touch base. Are we all good? Hear their side of the story? I think that's another thing as well. Like, seek to understand, not just to dump your thoughts and opinions on them, but actually give them the space to share how they're feeling. Because I have found nine times out of ten, when you give people the space to share what their perspective is or what's going on in their world, you realize there's so much stuff behind the scenes you have no idea about that. Once you have that understanding, it gives you so much more empathy for the situation. And you're almost sometimes leaving going, oh, my gosh, I'm so sorry that I doubted you and I doubted your character and your nature because of that one 1% thing I saw in your life when there was 99% all this other stuff happening. I think giving people the benefit of the doubt is also a part of us expressing Jesus unconditional love is that if we approach people praying and believing that they actually have the right heart, which I've found most of the time, people actually do. Even in the moments where I felt like there's a conflict or, you know, like someone said something to me that's made me feel hurt most of the time. They didn't mean to hurt me. They didn't mean to upset me. They weren't intentionally trying to be malicious. But once I bring it to them and go, hey, that thing you said, I'm just wondering why you said that, because it made me feel hurt. Either you're giving them more context to make them go, oh, man, I'm so sorry I said that to you, or they're giving more context on their side that you're like, oh, I fully understand now, and I don't feel hurt anymore at all. But either way, however that conversation comes out, I think something that, I mean, like Tom and I kind of, I guess, like, would discuss very early in our marriage, is if we would have a conflict. Sometimes I would say to him, even if he was totally right, it's actually the premise of, I felt hurt by that situation. And so I feel like there should be an apology, not because of whether you were right or wrong, but just because I was hurt, and vice versa as well, that if he was ever hurt, that I would apologize simply for going, I am sorry that I made you feel hurt, whether I was right or wrong. [00:23:38] Speaker B: And this is where freedom is. A responsibility comes into fellowship, because, hey, just because I was right, or even just because I was exercising my freedom, or I had the right to do that, if it impacts on someone else negatively, I have to apologize, and I can't use my freedom in that way. [00:23:57] Speaker A: And that's humility. Yeah, that's humility that I would say, or you would say, hey, I'm really sorry that I hurt you. I'm really sorry that this conflict came between us, because I value enough that whether I was right or wrong, that's not actually the main thing here. [00:24:12] Speaker B: Totally. [00:24:13] Speaker A: And something that I think is so important is if we are men and women of God, and we are a part of the family of God, the enemy wants us to be in conflict. [00:24:24] Speaker B: Yeah, totally. [00:24:25] Speaker A: The enemy wants to cause division and disunity. So remembering as well that if there's conflict, we're not actually fighting against one another, we're actually fighting on the same team. [00:24:35] Speaker B: Very good. [00:24:36] Speaker A: And the goal is resolution and unity. Not for one person to be right and one person to be wrong. It's actually that even if I'm wrong or even if I'm right, even if I'm hurt, even if I've hurt you, the goal is not to make us, you know, to work out the hierarchy or work out who's right or wrong. It's actually to get us back on the same page, which is unity. [00:24:59] Speaker B: Yeah. We're on the same side. [00:25:01] Speaker A: Yes. [00:25:03] Speaker B: Maybe if we just close with coming back to that acts chapter two scripture, because I want to finish with that phrase of, they had all things in common or they were all in one accord. That I think there's this thought. Yeah, read it out in. [00:25:27] Speaker A: This is verse 44. [00:25:28] Speaker B: Yep. [00:25:29] Speaker A: It says, all who believed were together and had all things in common. [00:25:33] Speaker B: Yeah. I think I thought that I want to leave as probably the start and end of fellowship. There's this quote, and I'm almost certain it's from CS Lewis. He's a cool guy, so I'm just going to say that that's who it's from. But there's this quote that says, and it's spoken into marriage, but it has application here for fellowship and I'll explain why. The quote is that your love cannot sustain a marriage and a marriage is a covenant, but your marriage or your covenant can sustain your love. So when we bring that into that scripture there, it's saying all that believed had all things in common. All that were in covenant, because we enter into covenant with Jesus through our belief in Jesus. So all that were in covenant had all things in common. It wasn't that they had all things in common first. And so then they joined in agreement. It was out of the agreement that they had and the covenant that they had with Christ that it flowed into all things in common. And I think that's an important thing to realize of if we truly want to follow Jesus and we have covenanted ourselves to Jesus through belief and confession of who he is, then we need to be in fellowship. And that's his heart. That's almost a condition of our covenant. Like, it's an extension of that. And not expecting, oh, I'm gonna. The love that I have for you is going to sustain our relationship. It's. No, no. The fact we are covenant family will help me and sustain my love for you. It's the other way around. And so I think that that might be just a helpful thought to go, okay, we're in covenant relationship. We are family. You are my brother or sister in Christ. And so therefore, that can sustain my love that I have for you through conflict, through challenges, through dislikes and preferences. We are a covenant family. And so that will sustain the relationship. Not love. It'll keep us loving. [00:27:44] Speaker A: Yep. Praise the Lord. [00:27:46] Speaker B: Amen. [00:27:48] Speaker A: All right. [00:27:49] Speaker B: I hope that was helpful. [00:27:50] Speaker A: Yeah. We hope that gave some fresh perspective or reinforced some perspective that you already had. [00:27:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:57] Speaker A: This Sunday. Why don't you go talk to someone new? [00:28:00] Speaker B: Maybe you'll find your bestie. [00:28:01] Speaker A: Yeah, maybe you'll find your bestie. Maybe you'll find your future lover. Oh, come on now. [00:28:05] Speaker B: Oh, wow. [00:28:06] Speaker A: Or maybe go talk to someone that you've had conflict with. Yeah, yeah, genuinely, like, the quicker we can overcome, the quicker we can restore unity, which restores the purity of the bride. [00:28:16] Speaker B: Definitely. [00:28:16] Speaker A: Which is all our hearts, I believe. [00:28:18] Speaker B: And if you have a question about this or anything we've chatted about, we'd love to delve deeper into what your questions are. So get in contact however you can and we'll answer those questions at the end of the season. [00:28:30] Speaker A: All right, well, we'll see you on the next episode. [00:28:32] Speaker B: Chat soon. Bye.