Discipleship Conversations: Truth leads to Transformation

[00:00:02] Speaker A: Welcome to the YA podcast. Lean in as we dive into the practicals of life with Jesus as spirit filled young adults. [00:00:27] Speaker B: Welcome back to the Young Adults Podcast. We're so excited to have you listening in again. And I'm very excited by the guests that are joining me, sharing their journeys, their testimonies of. You heard that testimony. There's two people in the room of how God has formed them into the man and woman of God that they are today. And that is none other than Kane and Alyssa Attard. [00:00:48] Speaker C: Hey. [00:00:48] Speaker A: Hey. [00:00:49] Speaker C: Hello. Good morning. [00:00:50] Speaker B: Why don't you guys introduce yourselves a little bit? Alyssa, you've been on the podcast before, so people might remember that voice. And, and I probably heard Cain's preaching many a time, but tell us a little bit about who you are, a little bit of yourselves. [00:01:02] Speaker A: Yeah, cool. Well, hello, it is I, Cain, if you can't tell by the deeper tone of voice. But yeah. So Alyssa and I have been in Melbourne now for about a year and a half, part of NUMA Church. I get to serve on our. On our pastoral team as the missions pastor here and get to see Jesus do wonderful things in the nations and also in our own backyard. And I like a flat white with a little bit of honey. That's my coffee order. I won't tell you, my Mac is order. That's a bit too vulnerable. We'll save that for another podcast. What about you, babe? [00:01:43] Speaker C: Yes, hello again for those. Yeah. Who have tuned in before. But yeah, we're keen to jump in today. Obviously, we are married. We've been married for two years now on this wild adventure. Been in Melbourne for a year and a half. So it's been a while. Yes, yes. Moved six months in and yeah, we're just honored to be here today to break open the scriptures and share some of our journey. [00:02:05] Speaker B: But yeah, so good. What's your coffee order? [00:02:07] Speaker C: My coffee order is an oat latte with a little bit of honey. [00:02:11] Speaker B: You both like a little bit of honey, a little bit of sweetness. Yeah. Two of the sweetest people that I know. Just warming you up to the podcast. Yeah, yeah, no, it's good. Well, let's. Let's talk about discipleship. We've gone through this is. This episode is quite far along in this season and we've talked a lot about discipleship and maybe people are hearing a lot of different stories. But I'm really excited for you guys to share your unique stories and journeys. And so I would love to. For you each to just share how you got to be here today, whether it's your testimony or, or more from the angle of how you've been formed and how you've been transformed through discipleship. So whichever one of you wants to go first, just jump in and share a bit about your story. [00:02:57] Speaker A: Sure, yeah. Great. I love this topic because there is. There's so much gold to draw out of everyone's story. I think. I think for me, I had a unique journey growing up. My. My mum and dad were divorced when I was 2 years old, and so I had two different home cultures, two different lifestyles that I was a. A part of and two different sets of rules and ways of living. And on my father's side of the family, they were Catholics. My mom's side of the family, they. They were not atheists, but they definitely weren't for anything religious and often lived in opposition to Christianity. So, yeah, it was a unique upbringing being in two different homes. But my, my dad's side of the family started to go on a spiritual journey when I was probably around maybe 8 years old. They started to seek after the truth about God and then that caused my dad to move away, following the call of God, onto the mission field of Papua New Guinea. [00:04:07] Speaker B: Wow. [00:04:08] Speaker A: And so throughout my high school years, I spent all my high school years at home in my mum and my stepdad's house, where, yeah, I didn't. I didn't really have any example or grid for Christianity, though in my heart, I always believed God was real. Yeah, I believed the stories that I had heard throughout my childhood about the Bible, but I didn't even know that there was more. I thought that the things of the Bible kind of stopped there and it wasn't like anyone taught me that. I just didn't know. I had believed in my heart that Jesus had died on the cross, but I don't think I really understood that. He rose again and sent his spirit. And so for me, I thought Christianity was believing something of the past. I didn't know that it could impact our present day and our future. So that kind of led me to a lifestyle of believing in God but not following Him. So I. Wow, that's. I went through high school, I. I did the thing that a lot of teenagers do and you party and explore and get up to mischief and almost got expelled from school. And I'm grateful I didn't because I got to finish school, but a life of partying, drugs and all this sort of stuff kind of came into my life and I was trying to escape the chaos that I had at home as my mom and my stepdad were living in a really, I guess, volatile home where there was a lot of anger and hurt and abuse. And so I'd often try and get away from the house on the weekends so that I could, I guess, find my place of peace or happiness away from home. And that just looked like more parties, really. So it wasn't until I was about 16 years old that a friend of mine invited me to a youth group. I came along to that youth group, and one of the leaders there prayed for me. And I all of a sudden felt an experience that God was not just up in heaven, but he was present in the room. [00:06:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:20] Speaker A: I had this spiritual experience where I felt like I was standing under a waterfall of God's love. He was washing away all of my sin, but also embraced my sin, which I didn't really have a concept for. I didn't know that he wasn't afraid of it. [00:06:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:36] Speaker A: And so I felt his love washing away my sin. And. And I experienced his powerful presence in that moment. And I guess that sparked a journey of recognizing that the Bible didn't just end at the Book of Revelations, but that his spirit is here and moving through us and calling us into relationship with Him. That would completely change the way we live forever. [00:06:57] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:58] Speaker A: So, yeah. [00:06:59] Speaker B: Would you say that, like, the Word then became alive in that moment? It was okay, this is not just a dead. Yeah, yeah. [00:07:04] Speaker A: And so I, like, after that experience, I went home and I tried to read the Bible and I tried to understand what I was hearing and the stories that I heard. And I read how Jesus lived. But then I saw, oh, Jesus wasn't the exception. He actually passed his ministry onto the disciples. And these disciples, who were once sinners, are now healing the sick, raising the dead, casting out demons. And I just had this thought of, like, well, if they could do it, why can't I? Surely God. Surely God would want that for us. [00:07:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:07:36] Speaker A: Which led into a whole bunch of, like, frustration with the church as to, like, why are we seeing this happen every week? Like, why are we praying for the sick, sick every week? Why are we casting our demons every week? So that led me on a journey of hunger and longing to see the Bible made flesh in me. [00:07:52] Speaker B: Come on. [00:07:53] Speaker A: So that that kind of kick started this journey of a life of miracles, a life of experiential relationship with God. And. And, yeah, I was never the same after that. [00:08:06] Speaker B: Wow, that's so powerful. I love that because it testifies of the power of God. And you're like, well, if it says in his word. This. It must be. It must be real. Once. Once you had that encounter where God actually shifted the way that you were able to read the word, that. That actually changed your perspective. [00:08:26] Speaker A: Absolutely. Yeah. [00:08:27] Speaker B: So good. Yeah. Alyssa, do you want to share a little bit about yours as well? [00:08:31] Speaker C: Sure. Yeah. So my formation journey or a bit of my testimony is probably. Yeah, I have. I have four siblings. I'm one of five, which is fun and busy. And, Yeah, I think initially, before I ever knew Jesus or had my own relationship, I really could see the transformation or the transformative work of the Holy Spirit in my mum. So I first probably encountered the love of Jesus through my mum. And so a lot of. Yeah, my upbringing was quite tumultuous and what I now would know to be, like, probably, yeah, living in domestic violence with a lot of instability and stuff. And eventually my father left, left my mom and us kids. And so it was quite a. Yeah, it was a very confusing journey. It really, like, hit me hard. Like, in my identity, I think I'd always felt rocky. But during that season and those years, I noticed when my mum first entered into a relationship with Jesus, like, just this total shift in her. She still was moving through depression, still moving through loss, still run off her feet with five kids, of course. But for me, I just. Yeah, I could not deny, like, the faithfulness of God. I could not deny, like, when she would pray or when we would be like, we don't have groceries or we couldn't afford to, like, go to school. And she was like, I knew that. I knew that God would provide because I had seen his faithfulness, yeah, great. Through her life. And I remember having a lot of, like, anger and frustration. Like, I didn't. When you're young, like, you kind of end up unintentionally blaming God. Like, people saying things like, oh, but God's so good and he'll never leave you. And I'm like, well, where was he when this happened? Where was he to protect me when that happened? And so God was so okay with me wrestling that out and bringing my anger to him. And, like, he was okay with the full spectrum of emotions. But, yeah, a huge, like, a huge part of, like, my testimony was just, yeah, waking up and hearing my mum praying, praying over us and, like, praying in the night and crying out to God. And I was like, whoa, like, this must be real. And just, like, the. The supernatural hope and strength that she carried. And I just. I was almost frustrated, but I was like, oh, like, I couldn't deny that it was real. And then for me, like, yeah, moving through pain, moving through loss and heartache and feeling abandoned and taking that to God and being like. Like, have you. Have you abandoned me? And he. He is not afraid of. Of reaching into those spaces. [00:11:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:05] Speaker C: So I had a few, like, really key encounters with God where I was living in a life of sin. And it really, like, had, like, a woman at the, well, moment at a different. Like, at an event, actually, like when I was a teenager and I was living. Yeah, I was in a relationship, living in a life of sin, as I'd said, and somebody just called me out, like, in love, like, was like, there's a girl here. And just, like, read my mail. Wow. And I just remember hitting the ground. I don't even remember what they said, but they literally, like, told my life story. And I just remember weeping and I got up off the ground. And the Holy Spirit. It must have been the Holy Spirit, because I was like, I need to go and confess this to my mum. [00:11:41] Speaker B: Wow. [00:11:41] Speaker C: And my youth pastor and I went and broke up in that relationship. Like, I went and broke off the relationship that night. Like, I literally got up off the ground and it was like 180 with my life. And I was like, I need to fully posture myself to pursue Jesus. And I remember going to my mum and it was still a journey, but I just had these key moments of encounter where I just was like, radical obedience of, like, yes, fully turning. And then it flowed very differently from then of, like, learning to live a life of continual obedience. But, yeah, I would say, yeah, a huge part of my. My journey was being introduced to Jesus through my mum and seeing her actually walk out. [00:12:19] Speaker B: So beautiful. So that example in your home, really drawing you into him. I see some similarities in both of your stories of just how having that revelation that God is not unafraid of my mess. He's not. Yeah, he's. He is unafraid of my mess. He's not afraid of it. He's not afraid of our brokenness. And I think in both of your stories, there's a lot that people can relate to of maybe even initially not believing or not being able to resonate with God or casting our anger on him, but then actually having this encounter with the radical love of Jesus. And for both of you, having a pivotal moment of encounter, I think it's very, like, easy to hear that and for people to go, oh, yeah, I have an encounter with God. But then to walk away unchanged or to struggle to walk that out. How have you guys walked out that healing Walked out that freedom post encounter. Because I look at you and even hearing those stories of the homes that you came from is somewhat surprising in a sense because it's like, well, you're such a whole healed person. So how, how did you walk out that what the Lord did in a moment? [00:13:32] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. Um, I would say obviously there's not time to share in full, but I think some keys across my journey was, I think positioning myself well, something that really, really changed my life. That renewed, renewed my mind. That was a huge part of. I had so many lies of the enemy that had crept in through pain and wounds from a, from a young age. And so the lens that I viewed the world through was always affirming what I believed. Like that, that self fulfilling prophecy of like, people always leave. I can't trust people. And so everything was perceived through that shield of like. And so I think for me, a huge part of my journey, my mom used to force me, which is so funny. Sometimes we don't have that person, but it was great. Now I pick up the sword for myself. But my mum would force me. I remember she would force me to like speak out loud and say like, I will not be anxious for anything. But I did that. [00:14:25] Speaker B: My dad did that to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:14:28] Speaker C: And it was just like this rhythm. I remember, like probably in reality now I'm like, I would have been in deep depression, like I was really lost and my mom would force me. I remember grumbling in the morning, I will not be anxious. Right? Like just like under my breath. I would be so annoyed. I didn't believe it. I was so frustrated. And it was like after months would be night and the mornings and then after school and she would just like, I will not be anxious for anything or have not been given a spirit of fear. Like she just would speak the word and get me to speak the word. And then I remember eventually, like at key moments in high school, like going into the bathrooms and then I realized, like out of my mouth I'm saying like, I will not be anxious for anything. I was like, whoa. And I realized for myself, without even realizing, I'm like picking up the sword of the word and casting down and cutting down and like sending back what the enemy is trying to send towards me. And so that was like a practical partnership of like engaging with like. Yeah. In warfare in opposition to what I was experiencing. So I think a huge, a huge part of my rhythm of life now in my walk is picking up the word and actually like mobilizing the Word. And utilizing it like Jesus did. That's been a huge. A huge part of, like, coming into agreement with the truth. That's one key. I mean, obviously, as well, there's so many other rhythms. I would say I got a lot of practical help as well. I think, like. Like Kane often says, if you have a plumbing issue, you see a plumber. If you are unwell, you go see a doctor. And sometimes we actually need help from, like, a Christian counselor. I've done, like, many years of, like, sewing into that space. I think as long as the Holy Spirit is leading. [00:15:59] Speaker B: Yes. [00:16:00] Speaker C: And you're not. It's not a replacement. [00:16:01] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:16:02] Speaker C: And it's not like, let me fix. For a while there, it was like, let me fix myself. I'm so broken. I'm so aware that I'm broken. Let me take you on the journey with me. God. But it was like, I'm leading the charge. But I think when that shift came and I was like, whoa. Like, I realized I was sabotaging the very thing I desired to receive. Or I realized I actually don't know how to be in a healthy relationship. Like, I remember having rhythms of sabotage towards even being with Cain. And I got so much help, like, in that time because I was like, whoa, okay. Like, I'm actually unlearning and relearning and so really positioning myself to get the help. Like, owning and looking in the mirror and being like, oh, I actually have these. These keys, these lies. I've learned certain rhythms, and I actually need help to walk a life of freedom or to walk a life that's different to what I've always known. [00:16:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:16:50] Speaker C: So it was both, like, being led by the spirit of God, soaking with him, sitting with him, being renewed, but also, like, getting practical help as well. Those were some. Some keys. [00:16:59] Speaker B: Yeah. And definitely your eyes would have had to be opened to that because it's very easy to be stuck in. In a cycle or a behavioral pattern and to not realize that you are. And so, I mean, you obviously had an awareness of, okay, these are things that are happening now. How do I get out of that? And seeking freedom and seeking wholeness for yourself. Which is awesome. Yeah. You can do anything to say on that. [00:17:25] Speaker A: I think some of the things that I really struggled with initially was I had, like, coming to Jesus. I experienced his forgiveness. I experienced his love and his power. And I had this hunger to desire to walk that out and to live like Jesus and to do what Jesus did, because I could sense that invitation. But then I still had, although Jesus had washed me clean on the inside out. Although he had had given me a new spirit, a new heart, my mind was still in the patterns of the old. And so what is an example of that? An example of, like, my mind being in the patterns of the old is in. Okay, so I can come into worship and I am as clean and as righteous as Christ because his blood's made me righteous as I can encounter his presence. But then I can go home, and my mind is still in the patterns of the old. So if I'm at home and I'm feeling lonely or I'm feeling bored and I'm desiring connection or I'm desiring to feel valued or loved or something like that, my mind is still in an old pattern that says, well, the place you're going to get this is from pornography. [00:18:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:38] Speaker A: And so although Jesus has done a healing work, a finished work, in my heart, my mind was still wired to these old patterns of, well, that's how you go and get what you need. [00:18:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:47] Speaker A: And so I found myself, like, having massive highs and massive lows where I would come into church and I'd feel encouraged, I'd feel on fire for God, and I'd pray for someone and someone get healed. And I'm like, oh, my gosh. Like, the Lord just used me as a vessel to heal that person. Like, yeah, that's amazing. Like, that's so miraculous, so wonderful. And then I would go home, and then I'd have, like, three days of, like, heightened glory and, like, you know, angels singing in my room at night and, like, tucking me into bed. Like, not. I'm not really. I was exaggerating a little bit. But. But that's like. But that's the, like, intensity of love and devotion and connection I felt with the Lord. And then after a few days, I'd feel myself. Those old patterns in my mind taking me back to sin issues that I used to try and fill my heart. And interestingly enough, when I was in those practices of sin or those moments of sin, I had less confidence to pray for someone. I had less confidence to share the gospel with someone. Or someone would come to me and ask for support in something. And I didn't feel like I had the same confidence because I felt like, oh, my gosh, I had this guilt in my heart. And even coming into worship, I felt like he was so distant because I had this sin issue in my heart. But there was a learning journey of the Lord actually wanting to renew my mind. The Lord saying that I'm just Because I've fallen into sin, that doesn't mean I'm a sinner anymore. He actually wanted to teach me about this new creation identity that I'd received. Yeah. So. So I was living like the old man that I was, even though he said I was a new man. And because I believed in my mind and in my heart that I was still a sinner who's going to wrestle with sin. [00:20:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:40] Speaker A: I would kept falling into those patterns because that was the programing I believed. But when I read the Scriptures and like Alyssa said, declared the truth of God's word, this new program started to develop in my mind. It was already in my heart. It was already in my spirit. But in my mind. Now this new program started to come through that I actually. I'm not a sinner anymore. I'm a son of God. In fact, I am unified with God. I cannot get any closer to God than what I am right now. He is within me by the Holy Spirit. And if he's within me, then anything is possible. I can't walk free from sin on my own, but because he's in me, the Holy Spirit in me, he can make me holy. And so this new program started to develop in my mind, and I started to actually believe that I could be free from sin. And when I started to believe God's word that he said, be holy as I am holy, when he said to the woman caught in the act of adultery, he said, I don't condemn you. Now go and sin no more. [00:21:45] Speaker B: Yes. [00:21:46] Speaker A: Now, Jesus wouldn't have told someone that if it wasn't possible. Like, he doesn't give false hope. And so his words and his grace aren't a license to get away with sin. His grace is the empowerment to overcome sin. [00:21:59] Speaker B: Yes. [00:22:00] Speaker A: So I started to see his grace. I started to believe the words that he'd spoken of me, to believe that new identity. And that shift caused my behavior to change. [00:22:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:10] Speaker A: So when I believed in that identity, my behavior changed. But too often we try and change all of our behaviors and fix our behavior before actually believing who he says we've become. [00:22:21] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:22:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:22] Speaker B: That's so, so powerful what you're tapping into there. I've had these moments by myself where I've been like, okay, I've always done this thing. It's always been this way. So it's just going to keep being that way. And it's like I'm imagining it's like a footpath. You just always walk on the same road and there's grass and bushes next to you. And it's like the only way to go a different way is to forge a different way and to rewrite that pattern, not through just changing your behavior, but actually letting your mind be transformed. I mean, it reminds me of Romans 12. So I'm just going to read that because I think that really undergirds everything you've been saying. I'll read 1 and 2. It says in the NKJV, I beseech you, therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service, and do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. And that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. And this is what you're talking about. This transformation is happening as your mind is being renewed. And therefore you're proving what God has already said to be true. You're proving that His Word is true, that his will is perfect because of this transformation that's happening in your mind. Like, I've had nights when I'm like, oh, I can't sleep. And every time I can't sleep, if I just put a movie on or YouTube or whatever, then I'll fall asleep. And then I'm like, why am I addicted to this, like, this external thing? And I need that to sleep. The Word says that he gives his beloved sleep. So one night I'm just like, lord, I'm not going to use anything to help me sleep. No white noise, no nothing. I'm just gonna believe that you're. That just because a path has been one way for so long, it doesn't have to be that way. Like, your Word is the truth. And I slept amazing that night, but it was just like, actually starting to really believing it and then practicing the belief. Not just trying to force ourselves to do something, but allowing the Holy Spirit to lead us. [00:24:17] Speaker A: Yeah. Amen. [00:24:18] Speaker B: It's so good. And you're talking about living a lot, like, living a miraculous life and, like, seeing these things in the Word about how. How Jesus lived miraculously. Can you talk a little bit about that and, like, your journey with more of the miraculous? [00:24:34] Speaker A: Yeah, sure. Well, I think it started in this revelation that Jesus is not the exception, he's the example. [00:24:43] Speaker B: Yes. [00:24:43] Speaker A: That he didn't come to just show off and show us who God was, although he did show us who God was. He came to also show us what it looks like for a son or a daughter to be in right relationship with God. And this is the Example we can follow. And so, you know, I was reading scriptures like Christ in you the hope of glory. I was reading it's no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And I'm seeing that there were these men, these men who were once sinners that had this revelation that now Christ is in them, Holy Spirit is with them, and they're able to do what Jesus did. And what did Jesus do? He lived a life free from sin, but he also lived a life of miracles. And so I just started to experiment with that. And so I remember reading in the Scriptures that the disciples healed people. Even after Jesus died and resurrected, they were still healing people and casting out demons. And I remember being on YouTube one time late at night, because my friends from school, they were. I would have been about 18 at the time. My friends. My friends at school were. They were off partying. My friends at church had their own little life group. And I was kind of like left out and felt like I was on the fringes. I didn't fit in with my old schoolmates, and I don't fit in with these church people at the moment. And here I am, I'm like, well, I'm so hungry for God. I'm not gonna let that stop me. And so I would stay up from really late, maybe like from 9pm until 1am in the morning on a Friday and Saturday night, and I would be on YouTube searching up how to heal the sick, how to hear from God, how to cast out demons, how to raise the dead. And I watched videos upon videos upon videos of people, people demonstrating healing, demonstrating, casting out demons, demonstrating, hearing the voice of God. And you know what, if you look on YouTube, you're gonna find some bad examples. You're gonna find some weird stuff. Yeah, but it's good. [00:26:47] Speaker B: The bad and the ugly. [00:26:48] Speaker A: Yeah, but if you ask the Holy Spirit, give me discernment, lead me to the right places. And the Holy Spirit did. And so I started to fill myself with the things of the spirit. I started to feed on the things of the spirit. That became exciting to me now. And that wasn't enough. I actually had to take a step of faith. The Bible says faith without works is dead. [00:27:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:11] Speaker A: And so we can feed ourselves on things of faith and sermons and podcasts and Instagram influences that we glean from. And we can feed ourselves a lot of Christianese stuff. But unless we actually work it out, our faith is dead. It's all knowledge, it's all puffed up. And so I would, like, watch this stuff and then Maybe it'd be like a Thursday night when we had late night shopping at the shopping center. And I would be like listening to someone talk about healing and words of knowledge. And then I'd like turn it off and I'd pray, God, like, give me words of knowledge and give me. I want to, I want to see you do this sort of thing and others. And there are people out there who need to know Jesus. And I'd pray and wait on the Lord and then I'm like, all right, God, if you spoke to me and you gave me a word of knowledge for someone at the shopping center, I'll jump in my car right now and I'll go, yeah. And I'd like sit there for like an hour and pray and worship by myself. And I'd hear nothing. And then I just have this like picture in my imagination of someone in like a green cast over their wrists. You know, a green cast. And then, oh, I'm driving to the shopping center. So I'd like drive to the shopping center late at night. It's like 8pm I'd pull up there, I'd walk around the whole shopping center looking for someone with a green cast on. Mind you, I'm walking past people in like crutches, walking past people that are lonely. Many people I could have ministered to, but here I am 18, walking around the shops and I don't see anyone with a green cast. And I think, man, I don't hear from God. This is stupid. What am I doing? And so I'd go back to my car and walking back to the car park, I open the door of my car, throw my backpack in, and someone walks past in a green cast. Wow. And you know what happens? Because I was already so discouraged and I was already so like, God's not speaking to me. I was already in that program of mind. And I let this person walk past and fear overcame me and I thought, I can't do it. Like I can't do it. And all this condemnation from me to myself came up and I literally, I remember banging my head against the steering wheel of my car in the car park at 9pm at night, being like, you idiot. Like you're so weak. You can't even go and talk to a person that you can't even offer to pray for someone. Like, how are you ever going to see Jesus? And I like really condemned myself. But you know, one of the good things I did is I'd drive home and I didn't just go to sleep on it. I'd Sit with the Lord and say, God, teach me how to do this. Show me your ways. Like, show me where I went wrong, what I believed wrong. Like, teach me. And. And then I'd go out the next week and do the same thing. [00:29:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:29:50] Speaker A: And you know what? Probably for the first three weeks, I just chickened out every time. [00:29:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:29:54] Speaker A: But the fact that I showed up, I think God was proud of that little faith to actually just show up. And then eventually I stepped out and I started saying things to people like, hey, could I pray for you? And some people were like, no. Others were like, yes, and yeah, but. But I started to recognize that God wanted to move through me, and it wasn't going to happen by me sitting at home listening to more sermons. [00:30:18] Speaker B: Yes. [00:30:18] Speaker A: There was no more podcasts. There was no more sermons I could listen to. On healing. All I needed to do was actually start to pray for people. [00:30:27] Speaker B: Yes. [00:30:28] Speaker A: And I realized that if I had to pray for 100 people and see 99 not healed, to see one person actually get healed, it would be worth it to see that person receive a miracle and know that God is with them. [00:30:43] Speaker B: That's so good. And not being discouraged. [00:30:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:46] Speaker B: All of the disappointments, but going, no. God is like, he's. As you said, he's so. He's so proud of your obedience. [00:30:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:55] Speaker B: And he. He's just like, oh, I'm proud of you, my beloved son, for stepping out. [00:31:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:31:01] Speaker B: You're obedient to me that you keep showing up, and I love that you kept going back to the Father and allowing him to disciple you. Yeah. Allowing him to inform you and to not draw a truth from the fact of, you know, your encounter, of going out and being disappointed. Not drawing a truth from that, but continuing to draw your truth from what the Lord says about you. [00:31:21] Speaker A: Amen. Yeah. His. His Word is the truth, not my experience. Although my experience is true in the moment, for me, it's a. It's a real reality. [00:31:31] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:31:31] Speaker A: His. His Word is a greater truth. And, yeah, I'm gonna lay my life down on His Word, not my experience, because my experience has led me astray. And so that was an example of stepping out in faith, seeing God come through, in. In the realms of healing, but then it also flowed into many different miraculous experiences and heavenly encounters. And it was oftentimes not in the big meeting. I didn't live in a big city like Melbourne where you could go to different churches and revival meetings and listen to all these guest preachers. And I was. It had me and my little church And I was alone in my room, and God revealed himself to me. And I would encourage anyone listening that you don't need to go to another revival meeting. You don't need to listen to another guest preacher or another person to lay hands on you, but God is wanting to lay hands on you right in your room, where you're alone, wherever you are. There is certain principles we see in the Bible of men and women who fasted and prayed before the Lord, and the Lord met them right where they were. And so I've had many experiences like that that I'd love to share more sometime. But those were some examples of how as I started to practice what I was reading in the Word, His Word came alive. And I saw a life of miracles. Not that I was pursuing miracles, but the Bible says signs and wonders follow those who believe. [00:32:57] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:32:58] Speaker A: And so I started to believe. [00:33:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:00] Speaker A: And they started to follow me. Yeah. And Alyssa also has a similar journey of stepping out and changing that belief and seeing God come through for her in that way as well. [00:33:10] Speaker B: Yeah. Do you want to share? [00:33:12] Speaker C: Yeah. I think. I think actually what was hugely pivotal, I love whenever Cain shares about this, because Cain's breakthrough and beliefs that were the bedrock of his life. Like, actually taking God at his word and being like, yeah, I believe this. Like, I'm 100% anchored in this. This is the truth, the whole truth. For me, I had so much unbelief. Like, I did not realize that I. I didn't really. I didn't believe a lot of it. Like, when. I mean, I thought I believed it, like, in my head, but the rhythm of my life showed that I really did not believe. [00:33:41] Speaker A: Like, it's encouraging, but is it true? [00:33:44] Speaker C: Yeah, totally. I'm like, oh, I love that idea. Like, how great that God wants to do that. [00:33:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:48] Speaker C: And then in no way, shape, or form is it, like, actioned in my life at all. [00:33:53] Speaker B: So. [00:33:53] Speaker C: So I think something that's really, really powerful even is that Cain's life or breakthrough and freedom in this area and outworking that also became my own freedom. Like, it was really something that convicted me. And God really, deeply encountered me in being like, this is for today, Alyssa. Like, this is your portion. [00:34:11] Speaker A: Come on. [00:34:11] Speaker C: You settled so far below what I paid for for you to walk in. And so it convicted me so much. Like, I remember just being like, whoa. Like, seeing Cain, it was, like, really offensive to a lot of complacen. [00:34:25] Speaker A: Example of something. [00:34:26] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, probably. Well, I had my own unique journey. I think when I was younger, I had turned to, yeah, just being very real. I had an addiction to pornography as a form of self. Self soothing, whatever it is. You know, a lot of people walk through that. Sadly, I don't think it should be normal, but it's common. And so I had been free for a fair while from this, but I still had a seed and, like, a root of fear of, like, maybe I'm always going to wrestle with this. Maybe this is going to be something that is always, like, a tug of war in my mind. And it's like I'm, like, fighting with, like, lust every, like, six months or, like, feeling so discouraged when it felt like arrows were coming in and I ended up taking ownership for them and being like, there's something wrong with me. Like, maybe I'm never going to be free from this. And I even thought, like, getting to heaven is going to be my reprieve. Like, it's going to be like, wow, I'm going to be free from this. Like, this is just going to be like, oh, the thing that I wrestle with. And I just could have to consistently, like, put it to sleep, like, always, you know, even if it goes like a year and then bang. And I would feel so discouraged. And then I just remember, like, Kane, like, I just shared. I was like, oh, I'm like, I'm really afraid. Like, I've been wrestling with these thoughts and, like, I had lots of action steps in place, but I just bought it before Kane. And I was like, oh, I'm so afraid. And he just asked really good questions. And I was like, yeah, like, I'm really afraid that I'm always going to wrestle with this. And I just remember in some way, shape or form, you were like, that is not. That's not the truth. [00:35:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:35:49] Speaker C: Of who you are, and that is not your portion. And Jesus didn't die and pay half the price for you to be free. [00:35:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:35:56] Speaker C: He didn't pay for you to have a partial freedom for you to get to heaven and then, oh, praise God, now you're free. Like, so what. What's that saying that you often say, like, about if. Yes. [00:36:08] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, it's something that someone had taught me in that journey, but it was that if we're waiting to get to heaven when we die, for us to be fully transformed and for us to become more Christ, like, or become the new creation, which a lot of us think. We think, oh, one day when I die and I get to heaven, then I'll be holy, then I'll be transformed. [00:36:29] Speaker B: Right. [00:36:30] Speaker A: But if that's your belief system, then your death becomes your savior and not Jesus. So Jesus is the Savior, and he. If you say that I am saved, what has he saved you from? Yeah, he saved you from death, hell, the grave, shame, guilt, condemnation. So let his salvation do a work in your heart. Don't wait until you die for you to be free. Death's not your savior. Jesus is. [00:36:54] Speaker C: Yeah, but I'd heard about this. I had not seen a demonstration. I had not actually seen people, Like, I'd heard a lot of talk of it, but I'd not seen somebody who's actually, like. It was always like, we all sin and fall short. That's like. It's like you add all these powerful truths of the Bible and then it's like a comma. We all sin and fall short. We're all sinners. Like, and it's like, it ends on that. And I just remember, like, yeah, Kane challenging me on that. And he's like, whoa. And just, like, in love, like, really being, like. And leaving room for me to wrestle it out. He didn't try to bring the truth. He couldn't save me. His revelation can't even be mine. But it was an invitation because I saw. I saw not just speech, like, a life free and a life fully grabbing the Word and. Yeah, and it just, like, shook me awake. I was like, this is dead. If I actually, like, like, what am I? Have I just been subscribing to something? Like, I just felt like I started to question everything, and I was like, whoa, like, I'm reading the Word and I'm like, nice. Like, really nice, but just not walking in freedom. So I think that, for me was, like, a huge shift with just the example from, like, pornography of just being like, no. Like, I am not going to wait until I get to heaven to be fully free and believe, and I'm not going to take ownership for the enemy's work. Like, I said to be like, oh, these things keep coming up within me. And Cain's like, are they coming up within you? Are they coming from within? Or they're actually just fiery darts coming from the outside in. Don't. Don't, like, put your name to the handiwork of the enemy. It's not actually you. No. You're a new creation. You don't think like that anymore. That's not the truth. Like, in just snapping me out of that and then being like, no enemy. Because when you start to say, like, oh, this is me and it's coming from within, it's like, you're inherently Saying, I'm sick, I'm unwell, I have this kind of mind. I'm always going to be in bondage. But yeah. So that just. It blessed me so much and really set up even our marriage. But I just love that, like, my mom's revelation of Jesus and demonstration brought me into an experience of freedom and then even for Cain as well. It's so formed me. And in the most, like, usually in the hardest and darkest of places, usually was like the greatest, like, pressure cooker of formation for me, of challenge. Just, like, flick the light on and I'm like, oh, my goodness. Like, I need to be freshly saved. Like, I don't know what idea that I subscribe to, but I need to be saved. He'll delivered, like, so. So, like, full on, all of it. [00:39:08] Speaker B: Yeah. That constant renewal and that transformation you're talking about, and you touched on, like, the. The external thoughts coming against you. It reminded me of 2nd Corinthians 10, where it talks about. About taking the thoughts captive and. And casting punishment on those disobedient thoughts. [00:39:26] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:39:26] Speaker B: Because it's like, oh, it's just me. It's just the way I've always been. No, no, no, let's. That's on the outside. [00:39:31] Speaker A: I literally would do that, Jess. Like, even to this day. Even to this day, if I have a lustful thought rise up in my mind or if I have an attack of the enemy or an imagination creep into my heart or a hateful thought or something like that pass through the screen of my mind. See, the mind's the filter to stop it from getting to the heart. And if we can take it captive in the mind and it doesn't solidify in our heart. And so I'll literally walk past something in the shops, or I'll walk through my house, or I'll see something on my phone and I'll stop and I'll stand up and I'll say, I renounce the lie that I wrestle with lust, and I declare the truth that I am the righteousness of Christ. I renounce the lie that I don't forgive that person, or I have hatred towards that person, and I declare the truth that I forgive them, and they are washed in the blood of Jesus, just like I am. And so I would take it. Like, we talk about, like, flies flying around your house, and I'd pick up the fly swatter and I'd swap those flies down. And you know what? Some people struggle with this because they're like, I tried that, but, like, it's still in My mind and things. It's like, well, if a fly is flying around my house and I swat it down, I can still see it on the floor, but I know it's dead. [00:40:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:45] Speaker A: And so sometimes thoughts pass through my mind, and I'll take the sword of the spirit, which is the word of God, and I'll cast that thought down and take it captive. I might still be observant of it, but I know it's dead. [00:40:58] Speaker B: Yes. [00:40:58] Speaker A: I know it has no power anymore. And Alyssa talked about that difference between, like, thoughts on the outside coming in. A lot of the times since we've been made a new creation, the thoughts and the desires aren't coming from within our heart up because our hearts, we've been given a new heart, a new spirit, a new creation. 2 Peter, chapter 1, verse 4 says, God has given to us great and precious promises. So this is a promise. This is not like an encouragement. It's a promise. And it says so that through them, you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped corruption that is in the world because of sin. So you've become a partaker of the divine nature. [00:41:42] Speaker B: Yes. [00:41:43] Speaker A: And this is something Elissa and I would encourage each other in is like, hey, remember, that's not who you are. Who you are, what's your instinctual response is actually from the divine nature. [00:41:53] Speaker B: Yes. [00:41:54] Speaker A: Your new nature is to walk in righteousness, not to walk in sin. So even little things like, okay, I had a bad dream at night, and the dream felt really yucky, and I felt really guilty, and I felt really upset with myself because I shouldn't be having a sinful, yucky dream like that. [00:42:11] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:12] Speaker A: And you wake up and you're like, oh, my gosh, I feel so embarrassed. How could. How could I possibly have a dream like that? I've been a Christian for five years. Like, you know, I'm a life group leader. But it's like, the very fact that you feel yuck about that dream shows me that that's not who you really are. [00:42:28] Speaker B: Yes. [00:42:28] Speaker A: It shows me that that's not your nature. It was so contrary to your nature that it felt yuck because you've received a divine nature. [00:42:36] Speaker B: Yeah. That's awesome. I love that. I feel like we could keep talking about this for hours, but we should. We should start to wrap up this podcast because it's been amazing, and I really feel like the wisdom that you guys have shared in your lives, it's just imparted so much life to people. I'd love for you to pray over all of our listeners. But before you do, is there any final thoughts, anything burning on your heart that you would like to share or like to add to that? [00:43:04] Speaker A: Okay, maybe in closing, I would say, like, summarizing Alyssa and I's journey and the breakthroughs it came by. Understanding the truth about who God is. [00:43:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:19] Speaker A: Getting his identity right. That the Father is just like Christ, that Christ is just like the Father, the Holy Spirit is just like Christ, that the. Our beautiful, triune God is one. They don't contradict each other's nature. They are perfectly in union. And when I started to see God rightly, and I realized that he was so approachable and he was so good towards me, then I started to change the way I saw myself. And so I would say, go on a journey of learning the truth about God and then go on a journey of learning the truth about you. And when you get those two things right, you'll start to see your life looking more like Jesus, walking free from sin, walking in a life of miracles, coming into worship, coming into prayer at home, feeling so close and connected to God. And I'd say that's a big breakthrough for us. [00:44:21] Speaker B: Amen. Yeah. Go for it. [00:44:22] Speaker C: Super, super, super quick. I just want to encourage anyone that's listening that feels like oftentimes in both of our journeys, I feel like we experience God in His magnificence and, like, we're invited into these revelations in actually places of loss and lack, frustration, struggle. So I just want. Yeah. Anyone who's listening to just be encouraged that we feel like it's got to be the mountaintop, but usually it's the valley. Yeah, it's in the valley. I mean, a lack of a father for me meant a beautiful invitation to receive the picture of the image of Father God. So, yeah, wherever your place of you feel like you're in the valley, it's. It's your greatest invitation often to fully experience Him. So we bless you. [00:45:01] Speaker B: Yeah. Amen. Yeah. Would you guys pray for us? [00:45:04] Speaker A: Yeah. So, Heavenly Father, we just thank youk. We thank youk for your. The truth about your word. And I thank you for everyone listening, God, the journey that you've taken them on, I thank you that your love has been faithful. Oh, I thank you, Lord. Your love is so faithful. Whether we're in the valley, on the mountaintop, in the hardest place of our life, or stuck in a cycle that we really want to break free from, I thank you that your love is present. Present to heal, present to restore, present to deliver, and to lift us up. I thank you, Jesus, that you don't raise your hand to hurt us, but you reach out your hand to lift us up. And so, God, I pray for everyone listening today. I pray, Holy Spirit, that your power right now, whether they're in the car, whether they're at home or on a walk, I pray, Holy Spirit, that they would sense that you are closer to them than the air that you're breathing. I pray that, Lord, you would fill their heart with an awareness of your presence. And I pray you'd remind them of the truth about who they are, that they are a new creation in Christ. The old is completely gone. Behold, all things are made new now. Help us to believe it, Lord. Help us to live in that identity. And God, I pray that people listening would know the truth, that they can be free from sin, that they can hear the voice of God, that they can live a life of miracles. There is no one on earth that's an exception to that truth and that promise. But I thank you. Your promise is for all of us, for all who would believe. And so we believe in you, God, and we trust that what you're doing in us is a beautiful thing. So we pray today, Lord, bless those who are listening. Bless those who are hungry for more. Fill them with your Holy Spirit afresh today in Jesus name. [00:47:02] Speaker B: Amen. [00:47:02] Speaker A: Amen. [00:47:03] Speaker B: Amen. Thank you so much. I actually just want to briefly share as you were praying, I really feel like the Lord is just crushing false identities, crushing the lie that your past defines you. And I pray that over every person listening right now, that the identity of sin and the past that you've partnered with is been completely washed clean. But the Lord is even destroying the memory of that. [00:47:30] Speaker A: Yes. [00:47:30] Speaker B: And so we declare that over you. And I pray that over you right now, in Jesus name. And I just encourage you listeners, if you have encountered God and you've been transformed even through this podcast, reach out to us. We want to hear it. We want to testify of the goodness of God. And yeah, we just welcome your thoughts and your testimony. So please send them through. Thank you so much, Kane and Alyssa, for joining us and for being part of this episode and part of our lives. [00:47:56] Speaker C: Of course. The honor is ours. Love you all. [00:47:58] Speaker B: We love you guys. [00:47:59] Speaker A: Love you. [00:48:00] Speaker B: Thank you. So ya.